Here we go again!, Another Dark Knight topic! Options

[Wiryu]

I began a new thread so people can get beyond all the rubbish, and speculation from the original threads. Treat this like a review thread, and expect spoilers. I have a tendency of blowing things out of proportion, but really I don't think I could say much about how amazing I think this movie is without a lot of people agreeing with me. It reached my highest level of expectations and then some.

5/5!

[Crushinator]

Great movie, Ledger's performance was brilliant, as expected. Also Harvey Dent was fucking awesome, I didn't expect Dent/Two Face to have such a big role in the movie. Sucks that they killed him off though :( Could have been great for a sequel. I loved the Joker's mindfuck games with the hostages and shit, it really plays up the fact that he is simply a sociopathic anarchist, not some zany supervillain out to rule Gotham. How he screws with batman's head, explaining that they are to halves that complete the whole. "The unstoppable force and the immovable object."

Christian Bale's "solid snake" gruff Batman voice was a bit forced, though. Did he do it that bad in Batman Begins? I can't remember.

[AC9breaker]

I dunno about them killing off Harvey Dent, it certainly seemed like it. I think they faked his death and most likely will have him locked up somewhere in Arkham. The movie was freaking awesome, I loved how watching Batman, Gotham Knight added to the effect of the movie. I was totally trusting in his squad and then to find out out that the person who betrayed Gordon was Ramirez off all people (most noticable from the "crossfire" short but appears for a bit in "In The darkness" short) was pretty shocking to me. Especially since she goes off on a tiraid in the cut about how its good to finally be able to hold her head up and the importance of being an honest cop in Gotham. The movie was triple A and I think Joker totally fucking stole the show. R.I.P. Ledger. I didn't think Christians snake voice was that bad, I liked it actually. Its a way of him masking his real voice since I think he has a quite a distinct voice regularly and intimidating people. He did it in Batman Begins but he really layed it on thick on this one with it but for the reasons I said before, I saw no problem with it.
Also, Gordon being all like SIKE TRICKED ya, totally fucking aweomse and really did catch me off guard.

[Wiryu]

I dunno about them killing off Harvey Dent, it certainly seemed like it. I think they faked his death and most likely will have him locked up somewhere in Arkham.

Nah man, he's down and out. It's all part of the "White Knight" concept. The figurehead that gotham needed to look up to. It's why batman took the wrap for killing the people that dent killed, so people wouldn't try to be the hero he was, causing all of that copycat business throughout the movie. Then there's Dent, who people also looked up to, but because he was doing the greater good within the rules. (Very obviously, batman does not so he's surrounded by controversy.) It's the fragile line that if the hero falls from grace, the line is severed, and gotham citizens will lose hope.

All of this does raise another question though, given the situation, would you say batman killed harvey dent intentionally? He knew he didn't want the joker to win through dent because of what it would create through gotham citizens, but without killing him, what more could you really do to save him? If batman did indeed kill dent knowingly, it still means the joker won to some extent. I know the situation really didn't call for options, but I guess what i'm trying to ask is, do you think batman would have saved harvey dent if he could have.

[AC9breaker]

Thing is though, Dent didn't kill that many people. I understand what you're saying they don't want anyone imitating Batman. But at the same time Batman has his own rules he plays by and that is no killing. I mean they both fell from the same distance and it seemed to me Harvey could have survived it. Just would have been uncounscience. But becuase he represented so much for the people they couldn't give them the truth. Batman said it himself, you either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself turn into the villian. The truth is, Harvey Dent was no longer who he was, he had become Two-face. Then they alluded to it in the end saying that the people deserved much more then the truth so they told them that Harvey Dent was killed and pinned the Blame on Batman. I find even more reason to suppoert this thinking in that, The trick you into thinking commissioner Gordon was dead. In that way he could do what no one else could, keep the hope for the people and the image of their hero as they knew him alive. Also just like you said if he killed Harvey or agreed to it, he would still be losing to the Joker.

Also I can't help but feel that Batman holds deep feelings of responsability and guilt for Harvey Dent turning into what he turned into.

[Wiryu]

it really only takes word that dent killed one person to undo everything he did. It makes little difference, but dent was tackled over the edge, which batman managed to grab hold of the wooden beam before he actually fell, giving him the chance to brace himself for the fall. As for Dent no longer being dent and becoming Two-face, well that's also kind of supporting the idea of the fallen hero. From hero to villain, because gotham crime broke him. I'm not so sure batman feels responsible for two-face as much as he sympathized with him. The little exchange they had on the rooftop about rachel dying and dent thinking he was the only person who lost everything.

On the same front however, to support your argument, when dent started pointing his gun at the people he felt were responsible, the first person he pointed the gun to was batman.

[donkeybeatz]

This movie is BADASS!

[Vitamin D]

What more can I say that hasn't about this awesome movie? I was thoroughly impressed with it. It took the expectations I had for it, and blew them WAY away. Every actor played their parts exceptionally well, and the mood was set perfectly for a Batman tale. My only hope is if this goes into a trilogy, it doesn't fall off (way off...) like some of its super hero counterparts did (X-Men and Spider-Man the main culprits here.) I think imma see it again soon haha.

[Wiryu]

Harvey could have survived it.

worst argument ever.