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Apocalypse Tribe HQ _ Archived News _ FFXI Meeting 4/24/04

Posted by: Woe Apr 18 2004, 12:31 PM

the meeting has been put on hold.

Posted by: Ferra Apr 18 2004, 01:13 PM

Oh the excitement, it burns in my little skull <3

-Ferra

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 18 2004, 01:46 PM

your local crag? ie. sandorians go to holla, assrockers to dem, etc?

Posted by: Dorian Apr 18 2004, 03:04 PM

So what's th plan? YOu make me and Bryn get everone to the same crag? I see how it is. I'M JUST A SLAVE!

Posted by: Ferra Apr 18 2004, 05:20 PM

'Dorian' is copyright Astrid, 2004
Cannot be replicated, re-established in any other location, or used for any sort of profit without written consent from Astrid.

Posted by: Astrid Apr 18 2004, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (Ferra @ Apr 18 2004, 05:20 PM)
'Dorian' is copyright Astrid, 2004
Cannot be replicated, re-established in any other location, or used for any sort of profit without written consent from Astrid.

Hahaha, Ferra knows the rules.

Posted by: Afroforce Apr 18 2004, 08:44 PM

I won't be there guys, sorry, band trip to California, but if it's this huge, could someone PM me with what happens?

Posted by: ArekuReiesu Apr 19 2004, 01:06 AM

Wow really can't wait for this, it'll be nice to see everyone together in one spot. Hopefully I'll be able to come hehe.

Posted by: Woe Apr 19 2004, 03:08 AM

QUOTE (Camulus @ Apr 18 2004, 03:04 PM)
So what's th plan? YOu make me and Bryn get everone to the same crag? I see how it is. I'M JUST A SLAVE!

well if you want to make everyone unable to quickly get from place to place walk, say so beigelaugh.gif

Posted by: Nynaeve Apr 19 2004, 06:58 AM

LOL! 10pm? Oh dear lord, you forget I'm old and I'm usually beigesleep.gif by 10pm on a Saturday!

This will give me incentive to stay awake then, huh! *grin*

Posted by: Zio Apr 19 2004, 07:45 AM

Figures I miss all the good stuff when I'm NOT able to get on >_<

Posted by: Riel Apr 19 2004, 07:46 AM

Be thankful it's not midnight Nyn hehe,last one was quite late...by the way i'm retired from FF now,so hope you guys have a great time. buttrock.gif

Posted by: DarkEpyon Apr 19 2004, 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Nynaeve @ Apr 19 2004, 07:58 AM)
LOL!  10pm?  Oh dear lord, you forget I'm old and I'm usually  beigesleep.gif  by 10pm on a Saturday! 

This will give me incentive to stay awake then, huh!  *grin*


It's this blessed thing called caffeine, my friend. It's what helped many of us stay up and play PSO so late. As for me, I've been on RO again for the past two weeks and my FFXI ID has been deactivated. Squeenix double-charged me the last time I reactivated it after 2 months' absense.

Posted by: AC9breaker Apr 19 2004, 10:26 AM

Aww man I wont be able to make it. If you guys end up staying after 1pm est time maybe I could meet up with you guys. I could try to get someone to cover for me at work but I highly doubt that I can make it. Btw for those who dont know Im Breaker the thieving Galka.

Posted by: DivA Apr 19 2004, 05:42 PM

~pst? =/

*shakes head* hmmm, most unfortunate - this upcoming weekend (april 23rd - 25th) i'll be at the new living expo at SF & on the 24th at 7:00 pm will be the science & art of homeopathy seminar; this is something that i cannot pass up...i'll be sure to join the next official campaign, but since this expo happens once a year ~ it will prove fruitful if i be there to learn keys in self-cleansing.. beigesmile.gif

Posted by: Crushinator Apr 19 2004, 09:19 PM

How convenient that these self cleansing seminars follow April 20th? beigelaugh.gif

Anyways, I will certainly be in attendance of this meeting.

Posted by: Sheik Apr 20 2004, 01:06 AM

mm....I will see if I can make this one since I miss every other FFXI meeting...><.
Shame on me!

My interest in FFXI has been less than expected lately.

Most of my free time is spent at school now with homework and such.

When I get a chance I am usually on PSO...playing challenge...or talking with PSO friends...go figure!

The most that I completed is up to challenge C2C2 lately and only because a friend invited me that I had not played with in a long time.

I just played "follow the leader" which I have not done in forever in challenge!

Kinda fun actually and not so difficult. Did not die a single time. Boss is a little lengthy to complete...just be sure not to get near it when it stomps down...insta-kill.

Okay, nice to talk to everyone again and see ya on Saturday night!
oyasumi!
おやすみ~♪ at-emote1.gif
--Sheik

Posted by: Dive Apr 20 2004, 04:54 AM

News updated. Please review it and make an effort to make it saturday.

Posted by: Zio Apr 20 2004, 07:43 AM

I'm going to try my hardest to make this meeting even though I don't have access to my computer but I might be able to get on...Not promising anything so I may or may not be there.

Posted by: DivA Apr 20 2004, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Crushinator @ Apr 19 2004, 09:19 PM)
How convenient that these self cleansing seminars follow April 20th? beigelaugh.gif

*reflects* there are times where i do not understand your thinking, mr. Crush.. =. though you may find humor in my words, there is always reason for everything that i do; health is very important to your's truly & i do not acknowledge Doctors (12:60) as competent healers...therefore, i take full responsibility for my own state of health & do whatever i can to fully understand the root cause of illness & what i can do to truly heal a vast array of ailments by my own hand..

to heal, i must first learn how..

this is a sphere of study that i dedicate to seriously for a numbers of years now; so once again, my apologies for not attending the gathering this time around ~ but i've explained myself enough, & have no need to do so further.. *turns to Dive & Woe..* i've read the news updates, may blessings guide the guild toward the goals you seek, i'll be there in spirit; to all members of athq.. remember to keep this in mind..

consider - what must a collective do to attain perfect trust? far easier said than done, but know that the rewards justify faith in the practice taken to achieve this state of consciousness (some would even say ~ enlightenment..). at-emote1.gif

Posted by: Adiamas Apr 20 2004, 09:02 AM

Iam sorry i dont think I can make it to the meeting. I would not get back in tiem for it. What are my options? heh.

Posted by: hamstar Apr 20 2004, 09:16 AM

I will do what I can to be there.
My friend is in from San Fran for the weekend, but if this is a matter of much importantce then I can log on for a bit. I just need to know where and when in advance.

-Alex

Posted by: hamstar Apr 20 2004, 09:23 AM

perhaps the new linksack formed by Felys and Nevah. TheGS could be involved in Pearl alliance as well? I'm sure they would be interested in forming it.

Are merging in theirs or is a new shell being born?

-Alex akak hamtaru

Posted by: AC9breaker Apr 20 2004, 10:39 AM

Woot! Im gonna be able to make it. I got someone to cover for me. one thing though... SInce Im still the noob here, I havent been anywhere outside of the little bastok wasp infected area. Therefore Im most likely to get loss or pwned by some rock lizard like last night x.x

So if someone could hold my hand to the camping ground that would be cool. Im still trying to get the hand on what all the dam buttons do. I just learned yesterday how to talk to the whole linkshell at once lol. *5points for me*

Posted by: Kazicht Apr 20 2004, 10:47 AM

Hmm. Sounds like quite a feet to get this transition.. hope it all goes as smoothly as possible.

Also have you guys decided on a color for the pearle yet? Or perhaps that purple text may have answered my question, Hehe.

Anyway, I'll be there. mog.gif

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 20 2004, 12:06 PM

no disrespect meant when i say this, but what if some of us don't want to become "soul survivors"? i like the name "apocalypse cow" and think we should keep it. wouldn't it be easier to just restrict recruiting policy and take away sack holder rights than to scrub it all, lose a great LS name (that actually reflects who we are AT+GC -- for the most part), and invite all kinds of confusion. as to the arguing, it doesn't happen often enough to merit such drastic actions. in order to cut it out entirely you'd also have to cut down all the useless prattle on the /linkshell channel as well. much of the arguing (from what i've seen and personally been involved with) comes from people voicing opinions over a public channel. you cannot allow one person to express an opinion without allowing another to express his/her own. therefore arguing in its basest form will always exist on any linkshell regardless of color or name, unless we are all censored. if that is the direction the linkshell is moving in, i'm sorry to say, but i'm not interested.

long live the cows.

Posted by: Azrael Apr 20 2004, 02:28 PM

We should at least change the LS color if everyone isn't in approval of the new plan. I'm in support of whatever Woe and Dive decide on and I think that someone had to have had an argument on the linkshell recently to contirbute to the no arguing rule that was decided on. This may be to curb negativity on the linkshell as well. I know some people may not be in the best of moods after a long tiring day of work and to come on FFXI and see people in the linkshell bickering may make feelings worse.

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 20 2004, 02:37 PM

yeah, but who are the "leaders"? if the shell is supposedly a combination of AT, GC, VM, etc, who calls the shots, the leaders of each of the prospective forums? and the color is really the least of concerns.

Posted by: Dorian Apr 20 2004, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (drunken_chibi @ Apr 20 2004, 01:06 PM)
no disrespect meant when i say this, but what if some of us don't want to become "soul survivors"? i like the name "apocalypse cow" and think we should keep it. wouldn't it be easier to just restrict recruiting policy and take away sack holder rights than to scrub it all, lose a great LS name (that actually reflects who we are AT+GC -- for the most part), and invite all kinds of confusion.  as to the arguing, it doesn't happen often enough to merit such drastic actions. in order to cut it out entirely you'd also have to cut down all the useless prattle on the /linkshell channel as well. much of the arguing (from what i've seen and personally been involved with) comes from people voicing opinions over a public channel. you cannot allow one person to express an opinion without allowing another to express his/her own. therefore arguing in  its basest form will always exist on any linkshell regardless of color or name, unless we are all censored. if that is the direction the linkshell is moving in, i'm sorry to say, but i'm not interested.

long live the cows.

What they mean by argueing is not people dissagreing with eachother. They mean the whole thinsg where people fight like children and act very very immaturly towards eachother. And the LS does need a new name. I love AT and all, Hail the Apocalypse. But we are not only AT and Cow anymore, so we gatta scrap it.

Posted by: Azrael Apr 20 2004, 03:53 PM

.*Edit* Changed "leaders" to Woe and Dirge on above post. It seems like they are usually the ones that make the decisions regarding the meetings and whatnot and and that's why I called them the leaders. What I said probably came from me only really being active here at the Apocalypse Tribe.

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 20 2004, 04:12 PM

i guess that's it for me then. well .. who knows.. i'll go to the meeting, but i highly doubt i'll be switching over. eh, maybe it's the booze talking...

Posted by: proj Apr 20 2004, 04:30 PM

Seriously what's the big deal? Oviously this has been thought out. It's not like it's a democracy we're not changing countries or affiliations or absorbing a bunch of other linkshells. We're still talking about the same people with a new cool name and cool new linkshell color. This change will be a good catalyst for the linkshell moving foward.

Nobody is being left behind. I have been a part of gaming clans since the mid nineties and I think that changing names and what not is fun! It gives you history and perspective. You don't lose your identity, you build your bonds stronger by changing together.

I like that there are no hard and fast rules besides the obvious. Respect others and the community by not bickering in public.

I know I'm new and what not but I have a lot of respect already for everyone here and look foward to the change.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 04:30 PM

I gotta agree with Chibi about the arguing aspect. Everyone is human and there are just gonna be days when something negative might come out on the LS. Now if we have a certain person involved in most of the beef, then I think it's time for something to be done. I mean, what if Dive or Woe get into with someone, do the same rules apply to them? I think keeping the arguing to a minimum is important, but it's not life or death. I think there are a few more important matters that could be aired out before we worry this much about arguing.

I also think this is a lot of work just to change the LS name. We could do everything mentioned of the front page with the LS we have now, cept for the actual name change. But ehh that's just my two gil. In the end, as long as this dosen't become a dictatorship...I'm down for whatever...

EDIT...wow, I have a problem with this...

QUOTE
It's not like it's a democracy


I was under the impression that even though I am not a actual AT "clan" member I still had some sort of input. If this has been a dictatorship in disguise all along, I may go the route with Chibi. Whoa...that's really not what I wanted to see...

Posted by: Dorian Apr 20 2004, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (The JadeDragon @ Apr 20 2004, 05:30 PM)
I gotta agree with Chibi about the arguing aspect. Everyone is human and there are just gonna be days when something negative might come out on the LS. Now if we have a certain person involved in most of the beef, then I think it's time for something to be done. I mean, what if Dive or Woe get into with someone, do the same rules apply to them? I think keeping the arguing to a minimum is important, but it's not life or death. I think there are a few more important matters that could be aired out before we worry this much about arguing.

I also think this is a lot of work just to change the LS name. We could do everything mentioned of the front page with the LS we have now, cept for the actual name change. But ehh that's just my two gil. In the end, as long as this dosen't become a dictatorship...I'm down for whatever...

Jade is sexy.. and right.. I in no way think this should apply to say if I were to log on and be in a pissed off mood. Sometimes people are just genually pissed off. But something does need to be done about the few who bicker and complain all the time. It's a mood killer. We could make it all matter on the severety of the arguement. For example. If I say DRK sucks and Woe disagrees. no biggie. But if i call Woe a asshole, that can result in a broken pearl.

And yes, these rules do apply to those who are higher up.

If they don't, then my idea of what AT is has been completely wrong.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 04:50 PM

I also think that our new arguing policy could be faulty because what if like I come online and say hi to everyone, then Tan says..."Jade your ugly", and I say yeah Fuck you too. Now he and I know we are just playing around but there are a lot of LS members that don't know me(or him) very well and might think we are having a fight. This could affect me a lot because I always speak my mind and just let the shit fly when I'm having fun. Ehh, I'm getting more and more down as the day goes by...lol

Posted by: HC82 Apr 20 2004, 05:19 PM

I don't think a "No arguing policy" is needed, people just need to understand why they don't need to argue.

Look, I'll be straight up. If you as a person are too self absorbed, then your totally NOT getting the idea of the culture of the AT community. It's about helping each other out, not because you have to be, but because you want to.

Everyone is supposed to have each others back. So what if you don't get the item? People are 'supposed' to be there to make sure everyone gets their fair share at one point or another. If people put in the time to get something for someone else other then themselves, everyone needs to put in the time to get that something for those who were left out. If your only thinking about yourself, your not getting the flow of what the AT is about, or how a good mmorpg guild works.

Many of the members put themselves second and everyone else first. If people do that for you, then you gotta realize why you should do the same.

Posted by: proj Apr 20 2004, 05:42 PM

Maybe I should have clarified "It's not a democracy" comment as it's not very clear what I mean.

I'm really not trying to raise stink just saying how I feel on the matter and try to put at ease some of the concerns I hear as I have been through something like this a few times before.

I have been in 'clans' where it was a literal democracy, there was a leadership vote, and votes on everything. It was craziness and way over done. People get together as a bunch of friends and start to turn the thing into some kind of pseudo online government when it doesn't need to be anything of the sort.

Here you have a group of friends who respect each other and want to have fun and not let things break down into bickering. You obviously have a few leaders but we're not talking about full scale government here. Woe isn't going to start taxing you to come on the next rank mission ;D

If I think something is messed up I just say 'hey what's up with this'? If I want to change linkshells I do so. To sum up, the linkshell is a collection of people doing how they please (hopefully helping each other) in a friendly connected environment. Say Woe starts drinking stalin soda and comes down on everyone with his hammer and scythe, so what? People leave? The group is defined by it's members the shell and sack holders really have no control over anyone in the group other than by kicking you out if violate group policies. So the linkshell is intrisically defined by it's members and their behaviour.

Now not to get too offtrack here from the original discussion. The purpose of the name/color change seems to be:

Defining a new combined identity that better represents what the linkshell on bimarck has become.
In the process of doing this setting out a very simple charter to ensure good communication.
Get a new color and usher in a new era for the FFXI server residents.

Now since I've been so pro-change and going along with it let me try to play my own devil's-advocate.

If it ain't broke, why try to fix it? The linkshell seems to get along really well.
History, heritage and reputation could be lost as the linkshell has already been building a good reputation for itself.
While plenty of people will go along for the change is it really worth it if it leaves some other's feeling alienated who don't accept the change well.



Posted by: FlyRobinFly Apr 20 2004, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (HC82 @ Apr 20 2004, 05:19 PM)
I don't think a "No arguing policy" is needed, people just need to understand why they don't need to argue.

Look, I'll be straight up. If you as a person are too self absorbed, then your totally NOT getting the idea of the culture of the AT community.

I completely agree. Rules or no rules, the quality of this community will inevitably be the product of its members and their actions; drawing up a book of laws (yes, I know it's not that extreme at the moment) undermines this in my opinion. Who's to say that nothing productive can come out of an argument, or that it's not valuable for the community as a whole to help mediate a problem that erupts between two users? Personally I can't recall any incidents that have diminished my experience in this community, and I wouldn't expect to given what an awesome group of people you all are.

The linkshell is primarily populated by seasoned AT'ers, and I recognize that I'm a guest in this community - I'm grateful to have been invited along for the ride. I do wish we all had more of a say in at least the naming of the new linkshell though, as it's been conceived, created, and will be operated exclusively by AT folks it seems. I'm cool with that seeing how you've done such a fantastic job so far, but there are some aspects of AT culture (ranking users into castes and such) that I wouldn't want to see migrate into the LS. I deal with enough hierarchy at work; when I get home I just want to have a good time and do my part to make sure others do the same and succeed in their goals.

That's it for me. I'm a sentimental type and I'll really miss the glorious green, but if a new LS will better represent us then I'm for it.

Posted by: Omar Apr 20 2004, 06:18 PM

omg if you guys change the name and color of linkshell.. oh man will you not want to feel my rath!!



*sarcasm+99*

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 06:26 PM

QUOTE
we're are just trying to do something cool and new for the LS, and bring everyone closer togeather at the same time...

if you all want things to stay the way they are now, who am I to argue.


Personally, I don't have a big problem with the name or color change...it's this arguing rule that might need just a tad bit of adjustment.


QUOTE
oh man will you not want to feel my rath!!


Omar...it's wrath you moron...lol

Posted by: Dorian Apr 20 2004, 06:28 PM

Flye, there is no higherarchy of AT, sure we have casts and what not, but everyone here is equal, Just some of the other people like Dark Templar are mods, and Arbter are people who can edit the forums, don't think of it as people having power over you, cause no one here has power over anyone.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 06:36 PM

QUOTE
Flye, there is no higherarchy of AT, sure we have casts and what not, but everyone here is equal, Just some of the other people like Dark Templar are mods, and Arbter are people who can edit the forums, don't think of it as people having power over you, cause no one here has power over anyone.


I disagree somewhat. I don't feel like anyone has power over me, but I also don't feel us non "clan" members are equals to the actual "clan" members. Like Robyn I am very grateful for being allowed to be a guest here, but that dosen't mean we feel like your equals. That could just be my feelings as I can't speak for other guests.

BTW...that's one amazing run on sentence Cam lol...

Posted by: Sheik Apr 20 2004, 06:37 PM

QUOTE (The JadeDragon @ Apr 20 2004, 02:30 PM)
Now if we have a certain person involved in most of the beef, then I think it's time for something to be done. I mean, what if Dive or Woe get into with someone, do the same rules apply to them?

I trust the decisions made here and these members (along with some others) formed the now known "AT" tribe. AT was once a small group of known friends before it had grown (some for the better, and some for the worse). I do not think this argument (or even hint at) should have ever come up.....*sigh*

I fully trust the decisions of the higher caste. I believe everyone that is part of the community should as well. AT is not a democracy...but I (I believe) very open to ideas and new thoughts.

Although I am not one to give my opinion or thoughts often, they are not ignored as I believe we are "open minded" here.

EDIT: AT does have a caste system and that is one things I believe makes us unique. Castes are earned and recognized by the members, not given~~

Higher caste have been part of our tribe for longer and the decisions and thoughs are trusted by the others.

Posted by: Omar Apr 20 2004, 06:38 PM

QUOTE
Omar...it's wrath you moron...lol


lmao.. oops.. oh well the point was that nobody should give a fuck... its just a little change.. everyone gonna get in the ls.. and eventually the sack holder will get tired of breaking shells.. and having apology topics every three minutes...

guys.. its gonna be the same way it always was.. plain and simple.. its to big now to change it that much.. without arguments... how would you pick your president? without arguements how would peopel be able to defend themselves... its apart of our culture...

it may need to be toned down.. but it will be to ridiculus if becuase just one little 5 min fight they will have their ls broken....


Posted by: Dorian Apr 20 2004, 06:41 PM

QUOTE
BTW...that's one amazing run on sentence Cam lol...



Jade..... I love you so much

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 06:43 PM

QUOTE
I trust the decisions made here and these members (along with some others) formed the now known "AT" tribe. AT was once a small group of known friends before it had grown (some for the better, and some for the worse). I do not think this argument (or even hint at) should have ever come up.....*sigh*


I know how AT came around, and I never "hinted" at anything. Trust me, when I want to "hint" at something, you will know, because I will come out and say it.


QUOTE
AT is not a democracy


Well it may be time for me to leave. I fully understand who runs things here and I will never challenge them, but if this is in no way at all a democracy...I want no part of it.

Posted by: Sheik Apr 20 2004, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Omar @ Apr 20 2004, 04:38 PM)
QUOTE
Omar...it's wrath you moron...lol


lmao.. oops.. oh well the point was that nobody should give a fuck... its just a little change.. everyone gonna get in the ls.. and eventually the sack holder will get tired of breaking shells.. and having apology topics every three minutes...

guys.. its gonna be the same way it always was.. plain and simple.. its to big now to change it that much.. without arguments... how would you pick your president? without arguements how would peopel be able to defend themselves... its apart of our culture...

it may need to be toned down.. but it will be to ridiculus if becuase just one little 5 min fight they will have their ls broken....

May I add in that it is JUST a game...and to have fun.
This thread does not look like we are having fun be verbally (and using obsenities) to "bash" ideas and thought brought by other members...

I believe the rule is simple...just use common sense and be kind to one another...then none of this has to be worried about!

I hope we (AT) does not have to resort to written rules to govern our enjoyment of the game. *sigh*

We never needed writted rules before...why do we need them now?

I say this very strait forward (no offense):
If we need written rules then maybe those that need the rules to follow should reconsider why they decided to join us.

at-emote1.gif

Posted by: Mute Apr 20 2004, 06:47 PM

WHOA! Calm down guys. This thread was just a news thread. I think the context may have been take a bit far. Remember, we're all friends here. No need to go for eachother's throats now.

*does the shame shame finger gesture thing*
beigebiggrin.gif

EDIT: Tis a shame Dive has to come home to this after a long days work. :(

Posted by: Sgt. Retehi Apr 20 2004, 06:48 PM

*Passes around chill pills*

Chill peeps, this kind of stuff shouldn't be happening here. Simple as that.

Even if I don't play this damn game. beigelaugh.gif

Posted by: Astrid Apr 20 2004, 06:50 PM

QUOTE (drunken_chibi @ Apr 20 2004, 12:06 PM)
therefore arguing in its basest form will always exist on any linkshell regardless of color or name, unless we are all censored.

I think they mean immature name-calling. At least, I hope that's what they mean. If not, then I side with you, Chibi. However, I trust that they respect our opinions enough to hear them, but only mean to avoid immature attacks like, "yeah, well if you think so, you're an idiotic bitch!"

Posted by: Omar Apr 20 2004, 06:50 PM

People are misunderstanding the concept of "Arguments" and "Disagreements".

either way... people need to chill... ;)

basically we wont know how this works till we try it out... i mean you never buy a car without a test drive right?

Posted by: Astrid Apr 20 2004, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (proj @ Apr 20 2004, 04:30 PM)
Seriously what's the big deal? Oviously this has been thought out. It's not like it's a democracy we're not changing countries or affiliations or absorbing a bunch of other linkshells. We're still talking about the same people with a new cool name and cool new linkshell color. This change will be a good catalyst for the linkshell moving foward.


Why not? Dive and Woe didn't pick the name out without consulting the rest of us. In fact, we even voted on the names. I do think that we should have probably consulted the entire linkshell, but they by no means have all the power. Believe me, if we were all powerless puppets in their hands, I'd have been out of here a long time ago, being a person who loves speaking her mind above all else.

This is hardly tyranny in disguise -- if that was the case, most of us would have been gone eons ago, I'm sure.

Posted by: Rogue Apr 20 2004, 06:56 PM

There's a difference between a civil argument and flat out treating someone like shit.

I think it's the second one they're more concerned about.

I haven't been on much lately, so I don't know how bad it is, but this topic is ridiculous. Chill out, dammit ._.

Posted by: Astrid Apr 20 2004, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (proj @ Apr 20 2004, 04:30 PM)
Seriously what's the big deal? Oviously this has been thought out. It's not like it's a democracy we're not changing countries or affiliations or absorbing a bunch of other linkshells. We're still talking about the same people with a new cool name and cool new linkshell color. This change will be a good catalyst for the linkshell moving foward.


Why not? Dive and Woe didn't pick the name out without consulting the rest of us. In fact, we even voted on the names. I do think that we should have probably consulted the entire linkshell, but they by no means have all the power. Believe me, if we were all powerless puppets in their hands, I'd have been out of here a long time ago, being a person who loves speaking her mind above all else.

This is hardly tyranny in disguise -- if that was the case, most of us would have been gone eons ago, I'm sure.

EDIT: Gah. Didn't mean to post this twice >:/

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 20 2004, 07:04 PM

QUOTE
Why not? Dive and Woe didn't pick the name out without consulting the rest of us. In fact, we even voted on the names. I do think that we should have probably consulted the entire linkshell, but they by no means have all the power.


From what I understand, the LS and the AT "clan" are two seperate things. So if this move to a new LS is to embrace ALL of the sites/groups/etc we are all from, why did only a select few get to vote? It seems that the AT "clan" is taking over the LS and the rest of us mean dick. I'm not mad at anyone, but this really pisses me off. If I have no say in anything concerning the LS, why the fuck should I be in the LS? I love you all for the things you have all done to help me...but this is stupid. I was lied to and made to believe that in the LS we were all equal. This seems to not be the case... beigeconfused.gif

Posted by: Madgeiser Apr 20 2004, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Zorya @ Apr 20 2004, 07:05 PM)
There are people on the Linkshell who bend over backwards to help others out: Sil, Alex, Dirge, Bryn, Dom, Astrid, Wir, and Dorian are a few I can list right off the top of my head. In my opinion, these people exemplify the spirit of what AC should be.

If you log on with the thought, "Let's see what I can get these people to do for me tonight," then in my opinion, you don't deserve to be carrying that pearl. You don't deserve to associate youself with us. If you use your fellow ACers with absolutely no intention of contributing anything of your own, you demean what makes AC a community, and frankly, you don't belong here.

This i was not aware of, hence the you don't see me participate much in helping expedition or maybe it is just my arkward time. I'll be more mindful of people needing help in the future, if i can and able i will try....

Posted by: Dive Apr 20 2004, 07:47 PM

ok I admit we made a huge mistake in not informing many people of this change over. We fucked up plain and simple. I had no idea the type of reaction this would garner. I hear people saying they are not going to join this new Linkshell and others just outright pissed at us for some reason.

In my opinion, it has always seemed that all of the planning and setup for any mass Linkshell event has started here at ATHQ and has been overseen by the AT higher ups. I was under the impression that people are fine with a select group of players doing all the hard work for them and taking care of "business". And believe me when I tell you this, Woe and I have tried so hard to make a pleasant online experience for EVERYBODY.

In the begnining AT was a small core group of friends. This site has expanded on that and grown to accomodate our much larger "family" now. The caste structure apparent here is only to signify those who have been in AT for so long, and also to identify the forum staff and helpers. AT is not a dictatorship, It never has been.

This discussion has gone on far too long without any voice of reason. I cannot be here 24/7 monitiring topics. It seems people have already made their judgements concerning this without hearing my feedback on their opinions. I have seen the ruckus this has caused and the people who are already heading for the exit.

Let me say this one more time. Woe and I made a huge mistake. We never meant to alienate anyone, or make them feel that they do not have a voice concerning everyone's Linkshell.

The new Linkshell plan is now on hold, at least in my view.

Let us please continue this discussion without massive assmuptions and en masse dapartures. I feel that people have put their trust in us up to this point, do you think that we would lead you astray?

Do you think that we do not value your opinions?

I have more to say.

Posted by: Omar Apr 20 2004, 07:54 PM

woot nice post... i still dont see what the huge problem was... i mean who came up with the original name and color?

who cares everyone have fun! its ffxi... this thread should have never made 4 pages......

guys.. its not a big deal.. lol i cant stress this enough... its a name change.. wow!.. and who cares if the higher ups made the decision..

1. they are higher ups.. simply put...
2. they know what they are doing.. they arent stupid...
3. without them you wouldnt even have this damn site....
4. chill out.. because just like with anything.. things can change.. and positive feedback can help...

either way.. i say do what you want with the ls color and name.. as long as i get a pearl when i come back may 7th..

Done....

Posted by: Woe Apr 20 2004, 07:57 PM

dirge, thank you for saying something.... i feel exactly as you do. i've been sitting here reading this thread all day and i am just at a loss for words all i can say, is i'm am sincearly sorry to anyone we have offended, our intentions were nothing but good, i assure you all.

as dirge said, AT IS NOT in any way a dictatiorship. everyone here is equal, as is everyone in AC and ALL of your oppinions matter greatly.

Zorya and Elli: STOP IT, this is not the place for this. it shouldn't have been brought up here in the first place. it is entirely out of context.




Posted by: Dive Apr 20 2004, 08:02 PM

AIM chatroom in progress. Turn on your AIM client right now to join the discussion,

Posted by: Bantam13 Apr 20 2004, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (Dive @ Apr 20 2004, 07:47 PM)
And believe me when I tell you this, Woe and I have tried so hard to make a pleasant online experience for EVERYBODY

In the begnining AT was a small core group of friends.  This site has expanded on that and grown to accomodate our much larger "family" now.  The caste structure apparent here is only to signify those who have been in AT for so long, and also to identify the forum staff and helpers.  AT is not a dictatorship,  It never has been. 

Let me say this one more time.  Woe and I made a huge mistake.  We never meant to alienate anyone, or make them feel that they do not have a voice concerning everyone's Linkshell.

Dang, and people ask me why I'm not much of a forum person....

I believe Woe n' Dirge (new style comedy team~BANZAI!!) have been taking extra measures as of late to keep us rowdy folk under a modicum of control. Unfortunately, tempers flare when something goes amiss or someone is not readily available to assist others....

Now I myself would love to participate in the linkshell more often....but as I've said before, I have friends all over the place on Bismarck and I have to usually divide my time up evenly between them. Kyl (Khao) and I lost a good one last Friday (swapped servers ~ arguement was too many hotheads/self-centered people) and so a lot of my time as of late has been going about and relegating this news to all who knew him, etc.

Anyway, I would like to see every person here allowed a greater involvement in decision making whether it's large or small....suggestions, et al....nothing too heavy. One or two people headlining this tour bus should be enough to get us to Frisco and the Grandfathers of Alterna-Soul-Funk-House-Rock Benefit with minimal conflict, neh??

I've had many linkshells die or break up on me in the few months I've been around Bismarck and I'd hate to see this one fall the same fate....unlikely as it may seem, but I don't rely on certanties anymore.


Bantam13
--See ya round' ~

Posted by: HC82 Apr 20 2004, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (The JadeDragon @ Apr 20 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE
Why not? Dive and Woe didn't pick the name out without consulting the rest of us. In fact, we even voted on the names. I do think that we should have probably consulted the entire linkshell, but they by no means have all the power.


From what I understand, the LS and the AT "clan" are two seperate things. So if this move to a new LS is to embrace ALL of the sites/groups/etc we are all from, why did only a select few get to vote? It seems that the AT "clan" is taking over the LS and the rest of us mean dick. I'm not mad at anyone, but this really pisses me off. If I have no say in anything concerning the LS, why the fuck should I be in the LS? I love you all for the things you have all done to help me...but this is stupid. I was lied to and made to believe that in the LS we were all equal. This seems to not be the case... beigeconfused.gif

OK, about the democracy thing.

Feelings aren't always fact and let's all look at this logically. First off all, we talked about this whole democracy thing before, before Jade Dragon signed up here on the forums. We always take into consideration everyones opinions. If we miss someone, it's not intentional. Don't feel like your being jipped here.

Need proof?

You see my rank? Paragon. You see the little "number joined?" Yes, it says number 4. Guess what? I didn't give in any input about the name of the new linkshell or the idea of the new linkshell. So, the associates aren't being purposely left out here, because if they are, so are the paragons.

Why am I not mad? Because, it's not intentional. If I have something to bring up, I bring it up. It's the character, logic, and persuassion of the individual that determines a logical choice in these matters. If your two cents got missed out, SO did mine and it wasn't intentional.

AC is not all AT, so everyone has a say in this.

No one is trying to forcefully butt out someone elses opinions. Everyone had a valid point. Some points:

A) It's not a big deal. Name means nothing to me right now. It's about the content of the guild when you think about it, not the name. I don't care if the name is left the same or changed, it's about the PEOPLE. (This is my personal opinion).

B) The union of AT and AC is the foundation for the LS. Removing the LS is like removing what all this was built on. Some peeps feel left out on this choice or feel it's not needed. If anything, something that represents everyone and the AT/AC is in order.

C) We need something totally new to represent a unity between all the old and new. Something to bring us all closer together.

The way I see it. If the name Apocalypse Cow TRULY bothers some people on this forum, then we can come to some sort of new name that everyone will like. If the name doesn't bug anyone, leave it be and we can just focus more on a guild ethic then just a new name. A name means nothing without the power behind it.

Posted by: Azrael Apr 20 2004, 08:33 PM

I didn't think referring to someone as being a leader or leaders would help spark this kind of discussion on the LS. I was just saying that I trusted their decision and would follow whatever they decided on unless I really had a problem with the change. The reason why I said the color should change(and that was a little harmless nitpick) is because almost half of the bismarck server has our color linkshell. It would be unique if we had a less popular color that a million people didn't have. I honestly didn't think that this post would get this long. I knew there was going to be a response but I thought it would have been way less minor than this. Whatever gets decided on this issue, it won't make a difference to me as long as I still get to hang with this fine group of people until I quit this game(a long way off) forever. buttrock.gif

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 20 2004, 08:39 PM

haha.. look at what i started. like i said, i'll go to the meeting and hear everything out, before i make my final decision, but it's the very attitude of over half of these replies that has me questioning this move from the get-go. thank you dive and HC for clarifying about AC and AT, perhaps everyone else will listen and dispense with the caste system prattle. and thanks dive for owning up and taking responsibility.. although had i kept my mouth shut i doubt this topic would have gotten out of control.

Posted by: Dive Apr 20 2004, 08:47 PM

Come to the AIM meeting everyone.

message darksidedive now

Posted by: Dive Apr 20 2004, 11:04 PM

Feel free to add your opinions to this matter, but it has been decided that for now...the new LS idea is put on hold. There will be further topics on this matter soon.

Thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter.

Posted by: Zorya Apr 21 2004, 07:16 AM

QUOTE (Woe @ Apr 20 2004, 07:57 PM)
Zorya and Elli: STOP IT, this is not the place for this. it shouldn't have been brought up here in the first place. it is entirely out of context.

Unless I am mistaken, I don't recall mentioning any names in my post. It therefore leaves me to assume that the deletion of my post was the result of some personal vendetta or someone else's temper tantrum.

Posted by: Ikari Apr 21 2004, 09:38 AM

I was online so I couldn't participate in the AIM thing (stupid single computer), but I'm gonna voice my opinion here. Feel free to ignore it. Immature name calling, complaining, fighting,.....this is all I do. Granted none of it is serious, but I apologize if I have offended anyone. Really if it seems that I am being offensive, try to remeber that I am probably just playing around (you'll know if I am seriously pissed off).

As for the LS change, I will go with whatever the higher ups here deciede. I don't really feel that it is my decision as it is not my LS. I do appreciate being let in and the help I have recieved. And I was very happy when you let in some of the people I know from Voodoo Moose. I don't know exactly where the problem lie. To be honest, I am usually too busy making fun of Alex or bitching about my AF to notice what else is going on. I apologize if I or anyone from VM has caused a problem. It was my intent to invite them so that they could experience the LS in the same manner that I have.

That being said, I have always rather enjoyed the name of the LS, even before I knew it's origins. If you wish to change it, then so be it. However, I don't think that there is any need for it. Maybe it is about time to start limiting new recruits; but these are decisions for those that are in charge. Thus I leave it at that.

Posted by: Kazicht Apr 21 2004, 09:48 AM

Kitsume, your as much part of AC as I am, and I've been here since the brith of it.
We all have a voice in it. It is our badge, we wear it proudly as we do our adventuring in Vana'Diel. *salute*

And hehe, ofcorse its understood your messing around practically all the time, I'm sure no one is really offended whenever you push us on the floor, or kick us while we're healing. beigeroll.gif

Posted by: Nynaeve Apr 21 2004, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Ikari @ Apr 21 2004, 09:38 AM)
I apologize if I or anyone from VM has caused a problem. It was my intent to invite them so that they could experience the LS in the same manner that I have.

I hope this is not the case, but would like to know if it is....

The only comment I had was based on personal experience in terms of setting "rules". No one wants to play a game in order to be told what they can and cannot do, just as no one wants to come to a forum to post and have fun, to be told what they can or cannot do...but I agree with the person who said that setting general guidelines is important. Over at VoodooMoose, we didn't...we chose the path of "We're all friends, we don't need to police people, let's just let it go as it goes", and to be honest, that caused immense frustration, a sense of "no one cares", and it lost us quite a few important members in a huge to-do that took alot of us by surprise and was very painful emotionally. We've since regained a few of those lost (to us) souls, thankfully, and with their help we've taken a different approach, and it works.

There's nothing wrong with setting expectations...it simply means that everyone knows where they stand and should problems arise, they know where to turn, what to expect, and there's a feeling of both security and a sense of importance that comes with the guidelines. "Look, they care enough about making this experience the best it can be with these rules...this isn't a free for all..."

Don't know if that makes any sense...but just wanted to present it from a different viewpoint. I think the general guidelines are a great idea, as they lead to order rather than chaos, and show a sense of respect for the community/LS.

Posted by: Khaotika Apr 21 2004, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Dorian @ Apr 20 2004, 05:37 PM)
Sometimes people are just genually pissed off. But something does need to be done about the few who bicker and complain all the time. It's a mood killer.

My ears are burning...

beigelaugh.gif

-Khao

Posted by: Dive Apr 21 2004, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (Nynaeve @ Apr 21 2004, 09:52 AM)
QUOTE (Ikari @ Apr 21 2004, 09:38 AM)
I apologize if I or anyone from VM has caused a problem. It was my intent to invite them so that they could experience the LS in the same manner that I have.

I hope this is not the case, but would like to know if it is....

Of course it is not the case. Our VM friends have been nothing but kind and very friendly.

Words carry so far, and the wrong word at the wrong time here, can set off deadly chain reactions.

I do not have a problem with anyone from Voodoomoose, nor does anyone else here. VM has and will remain to be welcome here and in the Linkshell.

Posted by: Dive Apr 21 2004, 01:50 PM

QUOTE (Zorya @ Apr 21 2004, 07:16 AM)
QUOTE (Woe @ Apr 20 2004, 07:57 PM)
Zorya and Elli: STOP IT, this is not the place for this. it shouldn't have been brought up here in the first place. it is entirely out of context.

Unless I am mistaken, I don't recall mentioning any names in my post. It therefore leaves me to assume that the deletion of my post was the result of some personal vendetta or someone else's temper tantrum.

Let it go Zorya.

Please.

Posted by: Nynaeve Apr 21 2004, 01:59 PM

QUOTE (Dive @ Apr 21 2004, 01:49 PM)
Of course it is not the case. Our VM friends have been nothing but kind and very friendly.

Words carry so far, and the wrong word at the wrong time here, can set off deadly chain reactions.

I do not have a problem with anyone from Voodoomoose, nor does anyone else here. VM has and will remain to be welcome here and in the Linkshell.

*smiles*

Thanks for the clarification, I guess I really DO have to lose the "Mommy" attitude...VM is my "baby" of sorts, and were it, in the form of members, to misbehave or cause bad feelings elsewhere...well...I'd want to know.

...

No clue what I'd do, but...I'd want to try to help fix it. beigesmile.gif

beigeroll.gif


Posted by: Ferra Apr 21 2004, 02:01 PM

So, who's up for some fun then? Meet me in the steaming sheep for a raging keggar? Eh? Eh?

-Ferra

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 21 2004, 02:16 PM

as per the AIM chat last night, the meeting is still on.. it's just the name change, etc, that's been scrapped. no idea what the meeting will include, though, as no one seemed to know last night. hopefully we can plan something before saturday...

but regardless i probably won't be around for the meeting for very long. i got called into work on saturday night... graveyard.. so i'll only be around for an hour or two at the most.

Posted by: Dive Apr 21 2004, 02:40 PM

QUOTE (drunken_chibi @ Apr 21 2004, 02:16 PM)
as per the AIM chat last night, the meeting is still on.. it's just the name change, etc, that's been scrapped.

Wrong. Here is what I said and I will quote myself.

QUOTE
The new Linkshell plan is now on hold, at least in my view.


and later in the thread.

QUOTE
but it has been decided that for now...the new LS idea is put on hold.


It has not been scrapped.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 21 2004, 03:43 PM

This is what I think about the whole thing.

We all know a mistake was made, and that's cool, it's a part of life. So now we hold some sort of vote to see what everyone on the LS's views are(as far as changing the name/color, etc) and go from there. I know for myself, it dosen't bother me if we change the name or color, as long as I have some vote in what the change is.

Next I think, and again this is just my own personal opinion, we should have a 3rd advisor(not leaders) to go along with Dive and Woe. Someone outside of the AT "clan". Only reason for it being someone outside of the actual "clan" is if something like this comes up again, that person wont have the Tribe as their first concern. What I mean is, with Dive and Woe, their main thinking is prolly that which betters the Tribe(which is understandable and ok). Someone outside of the actual "clan" might be able to say, "hey wait a sec, what about this or that", and the this or that in this example could be something Dive and Woe didn't think about. Just a thought...

Last but not least I think everyone is the LS owes Dive and Woe some applause. Just as I lead everyone in the AIM chat last night to do. They are trying their best and they do a lot for the betterment of our LS and the happiness of the members within. So please put one up for Diggy Dive and Wiggy Woe...

toast.gif

BTW, my sig kicks your ass...lol

Posted by: Dive Apr 21 2004, 04:34 PM

QUOTE (The JadeDragon @ Apr 21 2004, 03:43 PM)
What I mean is, with Dive and Woe, their main thinking is prolly that which betters the Tribe(which is understandable and ok). Someone outside of the actual "clan" might be able to say, "hey wait a sec, what about this or that", and the this or that in this example could be something Dive and Woe didn't think about. Just a thought...

Wrong.

From the get go, every decision made was done with the greater good of the Linkshell in mind, not just AT. We have strived to keep everyone in mind when it comes to decisions. We have been completely selfless in LS matters.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 21 2004, 04:37 PM

Well, I'm wrong...so shoot me...just trying to state my thoughts...my bad, I'll keep my thoughts to myself next time.

Posted by: Ikari Apr 21 2004, 06:29 PM

Oh FYI, I am usually available on AIM if something goes down (unless I am playing FF XI), so if ya'll want you can IM me whenever you see me online. tke917 is my SN.

Posted by: drunken_chibi Apr 21 2004, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Dive @ Apr 21 2004, 03:40 PM)
Wrong. Here is what I said and I will quote myself.

"scrapped" was in reference to the plan as it pertained to the meeting, not the overall plan. so i am not wrong, though perhaps i should have clarified what i meant a little better. as i understood it last night, the meeting is still on, however plans to change the shell are currently not on for said meeting. therefore, scrapped.

Posted by: Horosha Onikage Apr 21 2004, 09:17 PM

Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend this meeting this Saturday... Neither will Veis. We will both be out of town and celebrating a birthday with our relatives then.

Sorry guys...

Posted by: Knightsword Apr 23 2004, 06:53 PM

I sadly won't be able to attend the meeting, due to work, I could chime in through other means such as aim or yahoo messenger, as I sit on my ass watching cameras all day.

As for the possibility of a name change, it was a good idea, since it is no longer just AT and GC members, please note I had no say in it ether and I as many others didn't care about it ether and am sorry to see it go on hold for the time being.

The help issue, well help is always nice and yes some due expect help in return which is only fair and people do get angry when it isn't. Yet it shouldn't turn into arguements that effect everyone. So please no more.

Thanks again to Dive and Woe for having us here and for keeping the site up and running

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 24 2004, 02:08 AM

I gotta admit with all the drama that's been going down lately with the fights, people leaving the game and this name change idea...I am anxious to see what will be said at this meeting. Dive has been laying low lately and hasn't been on FFXI(at least that I've noticed) in a few days. I hope everything works out well...

Posted by: Layrinn Apr 24 2004, 02:36 AM

I'm sorry, I won't be in attendance. I hope everything goes well.

- 'Rinn

Posted by: Dive Apr 24 2004, 02:59 AM

I will not be able to make it to the meeting.

Some shit came up and I doubt I will be on FFXI for a while either.

Posted by: Azrael Apr 24 2004, 08:41 AM

It's sad that so many people are still thinking about the name-change incident. I was hoping that the mess would blow-over. cry2.gif I'm at my class waiting on my ride. I'll think about it somemore and post later. There has to be some sort of a solution to all of the mess without people leaving because of it. cry2.gif

Posted by: Bryn Apr 24 2004, 11:23 AM

My apologies to those that would miss my presence, but I also will not be attending this meeting.

Posted by: Azrael Apr 24 2004, 12:26 PM

I want to know who is coming. Seems like everyone is either too angry to come or has to do something. It seems like most of the AT people involved in planning the meeting arenn't coming besides Woe(as far as I know). I think we need a meeting where everyone is able to come. I think it might help in the healing process cause all of this squabbling among the linkshell/boards is at least starting to affect me as well because I'm getting a feeling of helplessness.

Posted by: The JadeDragon Apr 24 2004, 01:56 PM

With so many people not coming, is there even a reason for the rest of us to show up? Is there even a point to this meeting anymore?

Posted by: Woe Apr 24 2004, 03:22 PM

Meeting canceled, for now...

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