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Star Wars: The Old Republic, MMOs meet Lightsabers & creet deepz
HC82
post Apr 30 2011, 06:37 PM
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I didn't notice anything in the forums about this recently, but bioware's new Star Wars MMO is slated to be released sometime this year in 2011.

Main site:
http://www.swtor.com/

Cinematic trailer:
http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/hope-c...railer#comments

Hungry Star Wars nerds:
http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/pax-ea...highlight-video
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Knightsword
post Dec 21 2011, 09:31 PM
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Let alone the endgame shit in FFXI, I would love to some wow players fight that crap, they moan about fights lasting long then 5 minutes, let alone the 3 hours some bosses had
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Scan_Man
post Dec 22 2011, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE(Knightsword @ Dec 21 2011, 10:31 PM) *
Let alone the endgame shit in FFXI, I would love to some wow players fight that crap, they moan about fights lasting long then 5 minutes, let alone the 3 hours some bosses had



Most of that was artificial difficulty and artificial longevity, which is usually considered bad game design by today's standards. There is a reason that type of stuff rarely exists in games in this decade of gaming. A game should test actual skill and not be a bladder bending endurance match. Nor should you have to take days off work in order to progress. Consequently games are not suppose to be a substitute for work or cause health issues, like holding your bladder for the 3 hour marathon boss. Cause let's be honest all that crap was designed that way to keep players playing longer, which equals more money in subscription fees. It's generally understood the old model had flaws because it was designed to keep players playing because of length, with psychological placement of rewards, that kept you on the hamster wheel. To be fair WoW has it's own hamster wheels that needs to go out the door too.

Seriously, do you miss that? I would be with you if I were my younger self, but at some point we get older and are not able to do that anymore even though we enjoyed it back in the day. That's where I am at and coming from. The game industry has realized this too because a lot of the gamers who made gaming mainstream are getting older, however they are still buying games. Some of those people are taking the helm of game design while the Miyamoto's of the world will be retiring in the near future.

I am not saying you are wrong to like that design, just it is unfair to say WoW players are incapable of something that takes that long when in fact the demographics and numbers say they have no desire to participate in that kind of gameplay. It's like trying to score points against a team that has no interest in showing up.






QUOTE
Blizzard added those mods to default because they tuned to raid encounters around the assumption players had them, leaving anyone without handicap. Watch some of the ex wow players in swtor try to heal without healbot and grid, its pathetically hilarious.



First off, I was never originally talking about addons, I just realized this might be a misunderstanding based on your response. When I said the "option to change it," I meant in the preferences. As in something you check off to change how buffs display. I worded it that way because I thought that while I don't like how the UI displays information I am used to, it may not be fundamentally broken. To determine that would require a sample of people completing multiple Operations over different types of mechanics (1 tier is not enough imo).

In other words Bioware may not think their UI is broken in this regard. Therefore, they may not want to force a straight up change on everyone just because I THINK and many others think it will be better for endgame, you know. Like, I don't think being able to move the UI is that important, but you do. Different preferences vs Bioware's design choices and implementation.

The only tuning Blizzard made because of mods was it challenged them to try and come up with new types of mechanics that could not be overly-simplified with mods (Wrath had this problem). They have gotten better at this. This is not a bad thing. But, they did in fact add stuff to the UI because they felt information was not available right away to the player. It was brought up in Blue posts with the reasoning behind the Dungeon Journal as a relevant example.

Some ex-WoW players are failing at healing in SWTOR because they don't have mods, especially Healbot and even more so Grid as examples? I understand where you coming from. However, those two mods work functionally the same as what you can do with the Operation frames in SWTOR (minus buff/debuff filtering and incoming heals). Even if you do think mods are the issue, you must also consider the problems with SWTOR's UI you and I have mentioned; not able to move it and even resize it to where the UI would work optimally for those players coming from a different UI setup. Maybe those people are looking for health bars in the wrong place because they are used to finding it in a certain place out of long term habit?

That or they are just typical bad WoW players. I've ranted about how most WoW players are bad at gaming before. They are a bad demographic example to measure any type of skill in a MMO. So saying "fail WoW healer" is not saying much because there is a ton of those people out there with and without mods: and they've been waiting to jump on the next MMO SWTOR hotness.

So to blame mods and say WoW's player-base is handicapped without them, which is largely made up of non-gamers that wipe on the new "brain-dead-just-hit-buttons-collect loot" mode Looking For Raid, is not taking a hard look at that specific demographic as a whole. It just does not hold water if you've actually pugged easy as hell content, or spent time recruiting for progression. No mod can fix a "not paying attention" handicap. No mod can fix a "not putting enough time in to learn the game or understand encounters" handicap. All of this is regardless how idiot proof mods, like DBM, are or Blizzard's updates to the UI seem. These people are just handicapped when it comes to gaming. I am speaking based on my experiences with other WoW players, WoWProgress statistical data, and why certain nerfs were made.

You do know now in WoW that if you die to something the game whispers you info on how you died and what to do about it? YET PEOPLE STILL FAIL THE NEXT ATTEMPT! Now you got me started, sorry.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It just takes some adjustment, that's the heart of that issue I think. I'm playing Jedi Sage healer for my guild and I have no problems healing and moving out of shit. It feels exactly the same as WoW, in which I've healed on and used Grid and mods. Indeed, there is no mouse over functionality on the Operation frames like I'm used to in WoW. So clicking on frames then pressing my heal is a bit inefficient for my taste. But, it's still not an issue if you are worth your salt.

However, there is self-targeting and focus target modifier bindings in SWTOR which do in fact work functionally the same as mouse overs or mouse clicks in HealBot. Good for flashpoints and main tank healing and keeping yourself up. I am going to play around with those more this week.


Anyway, I found the the color of the UI in SWTOR can be an issue for some too. My guild leader is color blind and is having a ton of issues with the reds on reds for the health numbers on the bars. So if he was playing a healer he would have a very hard time. He's really struggling. So some color blind options should be in the game.

Other things, let's see, I don't understand why you can't display all of the map icons on the World Map. You can only do one at a time. They have the magnifying glass that can show everything in area, but that is an extra step to show information that should be available at a quick glace. The mini-map has proper filters but not the World Map. It's odd design choice.

One thing I like that bothers other people. I like not being able to queue up for individual Warzones. Fixes issues of people gravitating to one Warzone over the others, and even people farming the easiest Warzone. It's also a plus that PVP is pretty damn good, as is the maps.

Stats stats stats! Very simple stats and formulas. Once you get around the language barrier of it being Sci-fi Star Wars instead of fantasy is quite easy to understand. You don't need to be a number cruncher to understand how much of something you need. For example, I need 20% more accuracy to hit 100% of the time with my attacks. WoW is unnecessarily complicated with stats. The equivalent in WoW is I need 791 Expertise rating to get my Expertise to 26 which will translate into a percentage of how often my attacks will not be avoided. Very good how stats are handled. Though I don't quite see why there needs to be a Power and Force Power stat, when Power handles everything. My best guess right now is how they itemized things at endgame, as it could possibly upset the balance on what certain classes can obtain loot if they got rid of Force Power.


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Posts in this topic
HC82   Star Wars: The Old Republic   Apr 30 2011, 06:37 PM
Crushinator   I'm not a huge SW fan, but I like bioware style RP...   May 1 2011, 02:11 PM
HC82   Gameplay vid from E3   Jun 11 2011, 10:45 AM
Scan_Man   I like how they are handling dialogue choices if y...   Jun 11 2011, 04:58 PM
tanshin   QUOTE(Scan_Man @ Jun 11 2011, 02:58 PM) I...   Jun 14 2011, 08:22 AM
HC82   It's a full timeline of the Star Wars Lore, via st...   Jun 14 2011, 10:09 PM
HC82   Pre-order for SWTOR is now avaliable. You can opt...   Jul 22 2011, 03:51 PM
Crushinator   150 bucks? Eat a dick, Lucas.   Jul 23 2011, 09:26 AM
Knightsword   You mean EA, Lucas didn't have anything to do with...   Jul 23 2011, 09:22 PM
Crushinator   I think the Halo legendary editions are just as st...   Jul 24 2011, 01:41 AM
Scan_Man   Not to mention 60 bucks for an unproven MMO game. ...   Jul 24 2011, 05:55 PM
HC82   Here is the Gentle Giant Darth Malgus statue. Real...   Jul 24 2011, 11:27 PM
Knightsword   I think its limited due to not wanting their serve...   Jul 25 2011, 05:02 PM
Scan_Man   Comic Con panel. Seems they are banking on the gam...   Jul 26 2011, 10:55 PM
Scan_Man   This game is fucking amazing! Looks like I will be...   Nov 25 2011, 05:44 PM
HC82   Weekend beta is officially over! I danced my way t...   Dec 5 2011, 12:03 AM
Wiryu   Ki'ta Kren is an east coast PvP server. It's the o...   Dec 5 2011, 11:03 AM
Crushinator   Is the empire the good guys or the bad guys?   Dec 5 2011, 05:19 PM
Knightsword   Empire is the Sith, the badguys. I'll be on the Re...   Dec 5 2011, 06:51 PM
HC82   We should probably pick some official AT server be...   Dec 5 2011, 10:51 PM
Scan_Man   I'm trying to find a server too as long it's East ...   Dec 6 2011, 11:43 AM
Wiryu   I'm pretty much promised to Ki'ta Kren since I gui...   Dec 12 2011, 09:44 AM
Crushinator   I'll just play wherever the hell Wiryu is. I'm s...   Dec 12 2011, 02:45 PM
Oddies da Nerfed   I'll most likely end up on a west server sith side...   Dec 13 2011, 08:47 AM
HC82   I am getting an early invite, So i'll let u guys k...   Dec 13 2011, 10:59 AM
HC82   Screenshots show the exisiting servers that are up...   Dec 13 2011, 12:49 PM
Knightsword   They changed Bondar Crystal to pvp from the beta, ...   Dec 13 2011, 05:00 PM
Wiryu   Most of the dudes I know headed to "Saber of Exar ...   Dec 13 2011, 08:40 PM
Dive   I'll see where the majority of you all end up. I ...   Dec 13 2011, 11:33 PM
HC82   If you pre-ordered late, you're guaranteed to get ...   Dec 14 2011, 12:22 PM
Scan_Man   I got my Early Access today! I guess I'll go Saber...   Dec 14 2011, 02:16 PM
HC82   I actually rolled Republic. I think a few of us ar...   Dec 14 2011, 05:16 PM
Kazicht   QUOTE(HC82 @ Dec 14 2011, 05:16 PM) I act...   Dec 14 2011, 05:37 PM
Oddies da Nerfed   I have a 21 Sith Sorc on Space Slug. Had to pick ...   Dec 17 2011, 10:45 PM
Knightsword   Ok rolled republic on Saber of Exar Kun   Dec 14 2011, 05:37 PM
Kari   I'm on Saber of Exar Kun with Wiryu.   Dec 18 2011, 06:34 PM
tanshin   RE: Star Wars: The Old Republic   Dec 18 2011, 10:56 PM
Kazicht   I really have to say this game does start off kind...   Dec 19 2011, 04:58 PM
Scan_Man   For me the game is still mostly holding up to my f...   Dec 19 2011, 07:47 PM
Oddies da Nerfed   If anyone ends up sith side on space slug (pve wes...   Dec 20 2011, 06:50 AM
Kazicht   So now that the game is officially launched, who e...   Dec 20 2011, 10:42 AM
Dive   I'm in. Still trying out classes but I have rolle...   Dec 20 2011, 01:55 PM
Wiryu   Bounty Hunter on Exar Kun named Wiryu. Lovin it. ;...   Dec 20 2011, 03:21 PM
Crushinator   I still don't have it, I want to play but I don't ...   Dec 20 2011, 03:51 PM
Scan_Man   Scankid - Jedi Shadow on Exar Kun Using this char...   Dec 20 2011, 03:54 PM
Oddies da Nerfed   Just started Sith assassin, Mistmoore, on Exar Kun...   Dec 21 2011, 10:14 AM
Knightsword   Let alone the endgame shit in FFXI, I would love t...   Dec 21 2011, 09:31 PM
Scan_Man   QUOTE(Knightsword @ Dec 21 2011, 10:31 PM...   Dec 22 2011, 03:53 AM
HC82   Characters: Dyne :Jedi Guardian Adol: Jedi Sage ...   Dec 22 2011, 11:44 AM
Knightsword   QUOTE(HC82 @ Dec 22 2011, 11:44 AM) Chara...   Dec 23 2011, 12:23 PM
Scan_Man   Well yeah the color blind issue, like in WoW, Bliz...   Dec 22 2011, 03:08 PM
Scan_Man   So how do people feel about the combat responsiven...   Dec 27 2011, 05:04 PM
HC82   When you queue an ability or attack that is not ch...   Dec 27 2011, 10:14 PM
Scan_Man   I've spent some time testing this on my Jedi Sage....   Dec 28 2011, 02:43 AM
Kari   I feel like assigning some kind of priority or dup...   Dec 30 2011, 08:51 PM
Wiryu   Started a consular on the republic side of exar ku...   Jan 11 2012, 07:02 AM
Kari   QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 11 2012, 08:02 AM) Star...   Jan 14 2012, 06:07 PM
tanshin   I'd like to start this post with a shout out to Vi...   Jan 12 2012, 06:25 PM
Knightsword   As for enemy difficulty, you are aware of the Norm...   Jan 12 2012, 07:38 PM
tanshin   QUOTE(Knightsword @ Jan 12 2012, 05:38 PM...   Jan 12 2012, 08:56 PM
Scan_Man   I think the difficulty is fine; for me at least. T...   Jan 13 2012, 09:00 AM
Kazicht   So far Linka, HC82 and I are on the republic side ...   Jan 14 2012, 10:25 PM
Wiryu   Sweet deal. I'll do some adding tomorrow.   Jan 15 2012, 10:48 PM
HC82   Establishing a guild requires a party of 4 people ...   Jan 16 2012, 09:58 AM
Wiryu   I can log in at anytime, but if we want to go for ...   Jan 16 2012, 11:12 AM
Kari   QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 16 2012, 12:12 PM) I ca...   Jan 16 2012, 08:53 PM
Wiryu   I'll be on tomorrow around 6ish est. For now thoug...   Jan 16 2012, 10:29 PM
Scan_Man   Really nice screenshots!   Jan 17 2012, 07:43 AM
Crushinator   Can you get a Jawa as your helper?   Jan 17 2012, 12:02 PM
Wiryu   Bounty hunters can!   Jan 17 2012, 03:22 PM
Kazicht   QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 17 2012, 04:22 PM) Boun...   Jan 17 2012, 04:52 PM
tanshin   So there I was, pokin' dudes in the dick with my l...   Jan 17 2012, 05:20 PM
Kazicht   So the Apocalypse Tribe guild is officially up and...   Jan 18 2012, 10:18 AM
Wiryu   I can't say I'd be too surprised with all the bad ...   May 22 2012, 01:59 PM
Crushinator   Probably. Get back on Diablo 3.   May 22 2012, 05:13 PM
Knightsword   I'm still playing, but not much left to do on my s...   May 22 2012, 07:07 PM
EinsamWulf   I kinda lost interest in this game after awhile, I...   May 23 2012, 07:38 AM


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