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DivA
question.. =.

who controls who in this day & age - human or machine? *ponders* i've been thinking about this one today after seeing koyaanisqatsi earlier today; it's true that humans brought the machine into existence, but will the machine surpass & control our lives - especially in the future? do we still have control of our future? -.O *shivers* well, i'll toss this one out there for ATHQ to play with - what's your take on this?

useless fact: koyaanisqatsi translates as - life out of balance (fascinating film btw - highly recommended for those curious to learn how civilization is currently working...behind the scenes style, of course.. ^.-)
Rogue
Well I think of it this way... For the present, machines wouldn't be much good if all the humans on the planet disappeared (I think, anyways beigedead.gif ) At least people can find means to survive. Hell, look at the Amish (bad example, I know beigelaugh.gif )
Angel of Enders
I believe it's definitly possible for machines to take over if humans don't put thought into how they create them. And I don't mean having a universal turn off switch.

(I'll get more into it later)
DivA
*nods* ever notice how civilization is behaving - very much like a computer; if we observe large cities from top-view, it looks like a circuit board.. =. roads are conduits, automobiles are like the electrical pulses that travel from building to building, the buildings themselves look like large processor units (woah - gaming companies could be graphics processors.. -.@) - all this, coupled with the perpetual clock -now digital- continues to tick even if we wanted rest.. a subtle illusion, but very real nonetheless - the very machines we created are now dominating our life & death style.. =. & with further developments of more advanced hardware are in process of being made; it's true that we are the power that machines symbiotically rely on - for now, but if that fatal day comes where:

1 - machines evolve & AI somehow comes into play..
2 - far more advanced power sources are developed - ensuring stability for machine development..

then it would be logical to say that that our time is numbered.. not necessarily a bad thing, i suppose - being a cyborg would be intriguing *muses* but what we once were could possibly be no more.. teleport.gif
Mute
Bah... sounds like an old Matrix discussion I had with my buddy one time. To tell you the truth, I'm not afraid of any machine takeover. I mean consider AI. Artificial Intelligence is just that. It's a programmed set of directives where the bot gets to make limited decisions. "Emotions" and "Ambitions" are things I don't believe can ever be conceived by a machine. So while they can be programmed to outsmart the most ingenious of humans, I wouldn't fear any "robot revolution," so to speak.
DivA
QUOTE (Mute @ Jun 21 2003, 11:28 AM)
Bah... sounds like an old Matrix discussion I had with my buddy one time. To tell you the truth, I'm not afraid of any machine takeover. I mean consider AI. Artificial Intelligence is just that. It's a programmed set of directives where the bot gets to make limited decisions. "Emotions" and "Ambitions" are things I don't believe can ever be conceived by a machine. So while they can be programmed to outsmart the most ingenious of humans, I wouldn't fear any "robot revolution," so to speak.

yet.. =. not so much a war, but rather a subtle, progressive shift; as of this moment, we are ruled by the illusion of mechanical devices - but that may change as the future unfolds..

hmmm, this is the classic argument - machines cannot be programmed to feel & know emotion; but, it's possible to program them to make limited decisions.. it all goes back to the program, it could be said that our genetic code is a program, a program for life - if that's so, then we are doing nothing more than behaving exactly what has been programmed into us on a genetic level..

*ponders* at our current stage of development, AI is like science fiction - but the possibility is there; if the idea exists, then somewhere, somehow - such a process could become known to us in time.. a program that would be similar to our DNA - a program that could be the foundation for learning beyond simple 1's & 0's.. be it either mechanical or organic, what makes us so special & unique against machines?

lol, maybe i should research into this; i'll call my future invention - skynet, or perhaps HAL.. ;p
Azrael
Lol at the HAL and Skynet comments. Honestly, I think the progression of AI and computes is good and all, but I think that the programmers should take into consideration what can happen if the machines get too smart. I did a report on Artificial Intellgence for my CIS 390 class last semester and one of the articles that I used for my paper involved a Robot (even though it was tiny and buglike) that actually managed to escape from it's holding area. It was found later outside the building and was almost ran over in the parking lot. I think that if a Robot can learn how to escape like in the case above, then what is there to stop them(future prototypes of humanlike robots possibly) from harming someone in order to escape? We could be looking at the possibility of something like in the Matrix or Terminator. attention.gif
Mute
QUOTE (DivA @ Jun 21 2003, 12:07 PM)
hmmm, this is the classic argument - machines cannot be programmed to feel & know emotion; but, it's possible to program them to make limited decisions.. it all goes back to the program, it could be said that our genetic code is a program, a program for life - if that's so, then we are doing nothing more than behaving exactly what has been programmed into us on a genetic level..

Eesh, I didn't think about it like that. Deep, DivA... real deep...
>_<
Bryn
QUOTE (Azrael @ Jun 21 2003, 01:46 PM)
...a Robot (even though it was tiny and buglike) that actually managed to escape from it's holding area....

Hehe, I remember reading that article, and paranoid sci-fi fan that I am, knew a robot uprising was imminent. beigebigrazz.gif

But really, we've reached a point in civilization where the thought of a machine takeover, ala Terminator style, is much less of a concern than what would happen if we didn't have machines at all. Technically a machine is any device created to perform a specific task, be it the wheel or a space shuttle, and the advent of better and more imaginative machines is what has brought our society to where it is today.

Of course, if all humans on the planet dissapeared machines would be usless, but in the same vein our civilization would crumble without them, since every facet of our daily lives is dependant on the use of technology. And while it may seem simple to say humans would survive without machines, how many of us actually know how to farm, hunt, store food, build houses...etc? In essence machines have already taken over our cultural development, and we are now in a symbiotic relationship with technology that there is no going back from.

I have little doubt that AI programming will become more advanced, raising the chance of machines running amok, so I guess in the future, when I order my personal house slave droid, I'll just have to make sure he has an easily accessible OFF switch...just in case. beigelaugh.gif
HC82
The way I see it, mankind is highly dependant upon machines, but not being controlled by them. To put it simply if machines are NOT in control of your thoughts and actions, then they do not control you. You always have a choice, be it the choice to submit or die.
unitself
Hey DivA. You should check out the opening sequence in the movie Tron. Even back then (oooh.. 1982) they saw how much a city looks and acts like a circuit board. :D
DarkEpyon
Heheh I remember that one. As for the possibility of a robot uprising, it is very much possible. However said revolt could easily be put down if said robots were outfitted with an override system of sorts.
Sheik
Interesting thought...maybe we would end up like in Matrix...that is a scary thought.
Speaking of that I can't wait for the rest of that movie to be released. Isn't it supposed to be out in a few months? Leaving us in that hang of a conclusion was not nice.
DivA
QUOTE (unitself @ Jun 23 2003, 01:41 PM)
Hey DivA. You should check out the opening sequence in the movie Tron. Even back then (oooh.. 1982) they saw how much a city looks and acts like a circuit board. :D

*nods* indeed, that was an inspirational film - powerful ideology; definitely way ahead of its time - i look forward to the upcoming experience - TRON 2.0; i gots high hopes for this one - it looks amazing, especially from what was revealed at E3.. beigesmile.gif
Sheik
They making another TRON movie? Cool! I did not know that. When is it going to be out?
unitself
no. unfortunately not another Tron movie.
DivA is refering to the Tron V2.0 video game.
Which looks QUITE cool, I must say.

*wonders about a Tron 2 movie*
hrm... I bet they would find some way to completely hose it all up.
like Kevin Costner as Hard Driver, a program with a heart of gold and a mission to save the world, or something.
ack!!!

Dive
Further Tron discussion here.

Keep this one on the topic mog.gif
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