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Knightsword
QUOTE(HC82 @ Dec 22 2011, 11:44 AM) *
Characters:
Dyne :Jedi Guardian
Adol: Jedi Sage


It would be good to see if we can create an Apocalypse Tribe guild on both the republic side and empire, but that's going to depend on the population of ATer's that jump on this *cough getthefuckoncrush&DJ cough*. Don't let FF14 traumatize you, this game is actually really good.


From my understanding it just takes 4 players to start a guild, and requires 4 to keep the guild going, oh and a one time 5k credit fee. So we should have enough to start one now.

QUOTE(Scan_Man @ Dec 22 2011, 03:08 PM) *
Who else loves datacrons? Man I love "gamey" stuff in MMORPGs. That's my problem with a lot of MMOs is they don't feel like games to me, but chat rooms with graphics. DC Universe Online added "gamey" stuff with it's challenge mission. Platforming and environmental puzzles in an MMORPG? Great stuff. Even if you have a guide on their location, it still can be challenging to get them. Really good design imo. Though kinda bad design that they are mandatory for endgame. Also, annoying if you roll alts I can imagine. Some of them are a real pain in the ass.

Some? Taris' were just plain evil, though not all are required, just the ones that boost your main stats (about a 5th of them), and the matrix ones are optional too, since you can get relics from crew skills and vendors.
Scan_Man
So how do people feel about the combat responsiveness?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84943

There is a ton of agreement of forums saying there is a big issue with the game. I have not noticed. It feels very responsive to me much like WoW. There is some buggyness animations sometimes where there is a delay, kind of like the animations queue up then follow the last animation. I think this is really what people are noticing, however your instant spells still hit the target even though the last animation is still played/delayed. I don't buy there is a .5 delay in being able to hit abilities because you have to wait for the animation to finish. That is just not happening with me, and I'm playing a Sage that has cast times, instants, and channels.

Here is an example though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlX59rdtls...01Xqqj_g-bLhNjO

He shoots one target in then throws grenade at other. See how the animation for the throwing of grenade happens after the blaster fire ends. If you take a look at the health of the mob he throws the grenade it actually loses it's health when he hits the ability, however the animation and the floating combat text happen when the grenade lands.

Maybe the reason I do not notice it is because other games I've played behave this way? Aint it standard that when an animation ends the next one for your next action starts? The argument is they want the responsiveness of WoW where animations can clip over others if you hit your next ability. I don't know, both styles feel the same to me in terms of responsiveness.

If it is not a bug, then appears to me like just how Bioware decided to do the animations. The important thing is damage is still instant at the time you hit your ability. However, if possible I do think Bioware should try to tighten up the animations with what is actually happening on screen a bit.

Edit: I don't understand how this kills the game either. Is it really that big of deal for a lot of people? Or is it a vocal minority thing?
HC82
When you queue an ability or attack that is not channeled, regardless of your attack animation it will go through. So If I cast Slash (which is slow to start), it will deal its damage even if the animation doesn't finish. Gamers need to understand that the animation time is meaningless. The move will deal damage regardless, so it's wise to move on to your next rotation regardless of a slow cast animation. I do feel that the responsiveness of some movements needs to be fixed.
Scan_Man
I've spent some time testing this on my Jedi Sage. For most abilities, the ones that have a .5 longer cast time after the cast bar is finished, if you cast something then queue up an instant, the instant will clip the animation of the previous abilities animation; just like in WoW. There is no delay. Cast Deliverance then compare when you cast Deliverance followed by Rejuvenate; watch your character's hand for the animation. Rejuvenate, as well as other instants, will clip the .5 leftover animation of Deliverance. If you do back to back casts of a cast time ability it will finish the first animation then speed up or truncate the second animation to sync up with the cast bar, just like WoW (I tested on my Priest).

The oddity I did test was like in the video with Smuggler. The grenade does indeed come out after the Charge Burst animation is finished, but does in fact do the damage instantly. Other instants will properly clip or fire at the same time during Charge Burst: start with Charged Burst then switch targets and queue up Flurry of Bolts or Sabotage Charge to see what I mean.

The grenade issue is a problem because it has a knock back component. In a dire situation where you may need that knock back ASAP to come out, I can see that being an issue. I understand the wind up for throw and the knock back happening when the grenade lands from a mechanic standpoint, but it should properly clip the Charge Burst in the middle of it's animation like the other abilities do. It's like Charge Burst's full animation with damage from grenade going out at the same time is correct. Then when Charge Burst is finished the grenade is thrown, thus you are waiting for the knock back to occur. This needs to be tightened up to be on par if you were to use the grenade normally, non-queued. The grenade should be thrown during Charge Burst in order to feel fluid.

I only tested Smuggler and Sage so I am not discounting other abilities that may also function like the oddity as others have claimed. Sage works fine from what I tested. I even moved when Deliverance cast time was done with a queued up instant and it's fluid with both abilities landing at the same time as I moved. The only issue here is the cast bar incorrectly showed it canceled the Deliverance at 2.5 seconds (talented) when in fact it landed. Should be a simple fix for that.
Kari
I feel like assigning some kind of priority or duplicity to the Smuggler animation issue would make my life a lot easier. The further I get in the game, the more frustrating the knock-back delay becomes. It really has nothing to do with aesthetics! My Sage is only level ten, so I can't comment on that particular dynamic, but I'm glad to hear it's not prevalent. I have no idea what the ETA would be on that kind of fix, but I'm probably putting Smuggler on the back burner for a bit until I forget how frustrated I am, or it's fixed.
Wiryu
Started a consular on the republic side of exar kun. Went simple with the name "Wir" add me!
tanshin
I'd like to start this post with a shout out to Vitamin D. May he keep being that awesome guy that he is. guitarist.gif

I've had tons of fun with this game. I love it so far. I spent the first 20 levels or so of the game looking for something wrong with the game, and I couldn't find it. I'm not going to pretend to be a professional game critic, start a blog, and then rant about animation responsiveness or other trifling matters, just for the sake of having something to complain about, but...! sniperer.gif I did, however more recently find some stuff that is nagging at my gaming experience as a whole on SWTOR. As of this post, I'm a level 25 Sith Warrior Juggernaut. I could probably a bit higher but I'm reluctant to sink more effort or time into my character at the moment. I've boiled it down to three issues.



First issue: The game has been relatively easy, and I never really felt as though my character were under or overpowered at any given time. That's fine. During a class story mission, I killed a room full of republic soldiers, lieutenants, blah blah. Didn't break a sweat. Then I had to fight the boss in a separate fight afterward, same instance, and my life bar shot down almost instantaneously, killing me. crushinated.gif I thought it might have been a fluke, and maybe if I popped off a med pack, I'd be okay. Nope. Died slightly slower. crushinated.gif It took me like 10 tries, and a run back to a medic droid, when I finally won. cya.gif Even then, I think it was luck. I'm not here to whine about overall difficulty; If they wanted the game to be hard, that's fine. But why was everything in the entire game up to that point (including in that same instance, same story, same room) super easy, and then suddenly crushingly difficult on one dude? At least ramp it up a little gradually, right? But then everything after that fight, bosses included, have been super easy again, so who knows what they want from me. untitled-2.gif

Second issue: The mobs are pointless. At least at the point I'm at in the game, so far. They were fun at first, I guess, but they have become tiresome. beigesleep.gif They give a completely inconsequential amount of experience, since we only get a truly tangible amount to levelup.png upon completion of quests or missions. They aggro on your presence and are always, always in the way. You HAVE to fight them, and aside from maybe completing bonus objectives, the fight is always a complete waste of time. They are always extremely easy and have no chance of killing you, and they always stick around just long enough to be inconvenient woend.gif . If they drop anything at all, it's always shitty, outdated gear or an item that says in its own description that it's useless! beigelaugh.gif Either move the freaking enemies, make them fun, or at least make them worth plowing through. guns.gif

Third issue: The "MMO" aspects of the game seem arbitrary and superfluous. This game feels like it would be better off not being an MMO at all. I feel like I'm playing Dragon Age or Skyrim with a bunch of other assholes in my way, spoiling things, or otherwise ruining my game experience and immersion. Since the game is so heavily story-based, I'd say player immersion is a key thing. An example is, I'm walking around the imperial fleet space station, looking around at the shops, or heading to the cantina to chill with my companion. I think, how cool, this is so starwarsy! plasmabeam.gif Then suddenly 8 dudes on various barely-faster-than-running speeder bikes drive through my character, kicking up dust and sand out of nowhere from the metal flooring, as if we were in a desert or something. Oh. Right. It's an MMO. beigerolleyes.gif I'm not sure why they let people use their stupid speeders in that particular environment, indoors. (Also I refuse to spend the total 60k on a speeder and license, since they chug along slightly faster than my sprint ewj1hy.gif , but that's a whole other issue) As for the arbitrary stuff, I'm talking about some items bieng rare for no reason at all, other than to dangle a carrot in front of our face. Omg rarez! ctf.gif For example, purple color crystals for light sabers. You can't really argue lore for that, because not only has purple has been freely available in most other Star Wars games, but the even more common yellow and orange crystal sabers don't even appear in the movies. I'm fine being stuck with a red saber for the entire game, it's just the principle that bugs me. I should be compelled by the fun content, thrill, and story to keep playing. But I guess those alone would be too much work for Bioware. I don't think you should have to be level capped, fighting end game monsters, and getting tied up in all that "second job" guild nonsense to change the freaking color of your saber, with a crystal that has the same stats as all the other colors. That, and tons of bad guy mobs use purple sabers. Gimme a break. beigesigh.gif


Also, anyone see the screenshots of people being divebanned.gif for using curse words while casually talking to friends via whispers in the game? What the hell is that?

Knightsword
As for enemy difficulty, you are aware of the Normal - Strong - Elite - Champion ranking for them? As for mobs, lower level vs your level do take a chunk out of the xp rewards, but they exist to give ya something extra, but not required to do, grinding only to level on mobs is staple that should be sent back to the JRPG's that spawned it. Every Western made mmo, I've played, has always been Questing > Grinding for leveling.

As for Space stations, they're cities in space even in Star Wars, they could have mass public transportation and still be in line. In actual buildings, many tunnels, and ships you can't use them. Level 1 Speeders are 8k+ after the 40k training, and give you a 90% speed buff. Sprint if I recall is 30%. Level 2 speeders run 20k+ and 210k training, the buff is 100%. Finally Level 3 speeders are 50k to 1mil+, training is 300K and the buff is 110%. Like most MMO's mounts are luxury items and money sinks, And really credits are by far not hard to get, if you work at it. Space Mission's are just of one easy ways.

As for color crystals big woop, giving everything away for free to level one's isn't how MMO's work, so they made Purple a high level rare, there are still 5 other colors you use or like any other MMO in existence work your way to the goal. If you want to remain casual fine, but again this is still an MMO, and those that put in the time should deserve extra rewards. Also there are static (uncustomizable) Sith only pvp reward sabers with purple colors too. Also there is this one too Magenta. Hell most of the time I have to buy darkside lightsabers to get the orange crystals I use, 15-20k a pop and then upwards to 2k to remove the crystal. There also is chance lower level purple will come available via the legacy system down the line so wait and see.

As for the banned thing, thats a hoax, as you can freely swear in any chat mode, hence the existence of the chat filter if it offends someone.
tanshin
QUOTE(Knightsword @ Jan 12 2012, 05:38 PM) *
As for enemy difficulty, you are aware of the Normal - Strong - Elite - Champion ranking for them? As for mobs, lower level vs your level do take a chunk out of the xp rewards, but they exist to give ya something extra, but not required to do, grinding only to level on mobs is staple that should be sent back to the JRPG's that spawned it. Every Western made mmo, I've played, has always been Questing > Grinding for leveling.

As for Space stations, they're cities in space even in Star Wars, they could have mass public transportation and still be in line. In actual buildings, many tunnels, and ships you can't use them. Level 1 Speeders are 8k+ after the 40k training, and give you a 90% speed buff. Sprint if I recall is 30%. Level 2 speeders run 20k+ and 210k training, the buff is 100%. Finally Level 3 speeders are 50k to 1mil+, training is 300K and the buff is 110%. Like most MMO's mounts are luxury items and money sinks, And really credits are by far not hard to get, if you work at it. Space Mission's are just of one easy ways.

As for color crystals big woop, giving everything away for free to level one's isn't how MMO's work, so they made Purple a high level rare, there are still 5 other colors you use or like any other MMO in existence work your way to the goal. If you want to remain casual fine, but again this is still an MMO, and those that put in the time should deserve extra rewards. Also there are static (uncustomizable) Sith only pvp reward sabers with purple colors too. Also there is this one too Magenta. Hell most of the time I have to buy darkside lightsabers to get the orange crystals I use, 15-20k a pop and then upwards to 2k to remove the crystal. There also is chance lower level purple will come available via the legacy system down the line so wait and see.

As for the banned thing, thats a hoax, as you can freely swear in any chat mode, hence the existence of the chat filter if it offends someone.


Yes sir, I'm aware of the ranking of enemies. Apparently the "higher ranked" ones just require me to hit them a bunch more times. It's the same fight as with a lower ranked guy, just drawn out a bit more. They are less tedious, but only because the champion mobs are usually in a place where you aren't forced to engage them over and over. No one ever said we should be grinding on mobs to level up. But if we were, at least being forced to kill a billion boring things would have some point to it. I like the questing, and love the story. I'm glad that (so far) I haven't needed an 18 man party to advance at any point in the story, too. Those were the days, haha.

Logically, you may be right on about the space stations maybe having some kind of mass transit (which by definition the speeders are not). But relatively speaking, that is a very small space station, definitely not "city in space" size. You're telling me it doesn't seem out of place with how it should be, or doesn't at least urk you a little bit when someone pulls up to the the bar in the cantina to talk to the bartender with a big, hulking, sand-spewing speeder thingy? You've got no problem with the 50 speeder bikes piled into one another at the auction house terminal? It just shouldn't work like that. I don't see how you can rationalize that. I'm not sure how you thought my argument was about money instead of how crappy the speeders are... I have no trouble making money in the game (and I doubt anyone does, since the game experience can seriously be likened to walking through a halloween haunted house in a tightly packed line), and I have enough credits to buy the stupid license, I just don't think it's worth it at all. I'm entitled to that. Did you see how fast speeders are in Return of the Jedi? Sorry, I can't help but be disappointed, no matter how many numbers and percentages you tell me. I guess I'll feel pretty foolish when I'm eating the sand you kick up from the clean polished metal floor in the space station, as you laugh and (very slowly) ride away into the distance like a mall-cop on a segway.

I'm also entitled to think it's stupid that a fully aesthetic feature is an end game item. If I wanted a purple saber (which I don't) I don't even think it would be worth having anymore if I already hit the cap. Just because I think this about aesthetics, doesn't mean I think everything should be handed to us on a silver platter. That is a gross over generalization. Save this carrot-dangling crap for gear with stats so people that care about that crap can donate their life to the game for them. Aesthetics are something that should add flavor to the story, and development of your character. A color should not represent some kind of hollow trophy to stand holding with your saber out in the most crowded spot you can find, along with the 500 other people that have the same thing you do, and don't give a shit. The "excuse" of "it's an MMO, deal with it" doesn't satiate my outrage, because the game is obviously meant to be more than just a typical MMO. And you made my point for me when you said "If you want to remain casual fine, but again this is still an MMO, and those that put in the time should deserve extra rewards." It's as I said in my last post. This game feels to me like it would be better if it weren't an MMO at all.


I'm glad that screenshot was a hoax. Oh, is that what the existence of the chat filter is for? Thanks to your impeccable and objective deductive reasoning, now I know!
Scan_Man
I think the difficulty is fine; for me at least. Though I think it is going to be annoying for casual non-gaming player; people that don't play anything but WoW or Star Wars fans. Though from what I understand the difficulty curve seems to be different for specific classes. For me it seemed to get increasingly harder at around 30+. So that is a balancing issue that maybe needs to be looked at.

The thing a lot of people may not be used to is that SWTOR requires you to use all of your abilities for midway and onward level-up content. Not to mention make sure your companion has the right abilities toggled on/off. It's a bit shocking to the players who have been only playing WoW-style MMOs where you just burn through everything and move on without much thought. I like in SWTOR that you have to learn your class. It's going to make endgame a lot more pleasant, at the cost of scaring away folks who have less patience and time to dedicate to the game. Mouse clickers must be having a really hard time.

I agree on the mob placement, it does get tiring. It seems like they are padding the length of the game in a lot of places. Same goes with the walking speed, the speeder speed, and the general amount of traveling you have to do. It sucks when something that should take 5 minutes takes 25 minutes because you have walk and keep clearing packs of mobs in your way. Then the turn in, and scream "please be the last quest here" then they give a follow up that is just as out the way. I mean there is a reason Blizzard has optimized WoW's flow over the years, so there is little traveling back and forth. There is a reason Skyrim and most modern RPGs have quick travel. There is a reason Guild Wars 2 will have quick travel. The reason is walking is not fun and is not the heart of what make an RPG engaging.

But again totally agree, when there are bonus objective they are fine, but when I have to clear them again and again just because they respawned quickly, or are in the way of the area I need to get to; it's not fun. Balsavis is probably the worst with this, with having tunnels and paths filled with mobs that you have to go back and forth between objective and turn-ins. Indeed make them fun or remove them. Let's not forget the mob packs that appear at first as single enemy, but 6 of his buddies rocket-pack in or come out of the ground like zombies. That gets old after a while.

I think lower the cooldown on the hearth to 10-15 minutes would be a nice fix to the above.

Mob placement overall reminds of City of Heroes, which was always odd to me and did not feel natural for the setting. Like stuff should be coming at me and not standing around (the flashpoints and story quest get this action right for the setting). WoW seems more natural with the packs of enemies, something about the art style makes it seem more alive. While Star Wars NPC mobs don't come alive until you engage them. Well, interior dungeon-like areas are fine in SWTOR, as are the exotic wild life. But in city areas, like Coruscant, stuff is just standing around lifeless.

I think the quest rewards then having mobs dropping mostly trash items and small xp is fine for the most part. The point is to discourage mob grinding and item farming (you know gold sellers). On another note the amount of enemies and their trash drops make the game seem more hack and slashy. It feels no different than Diablo where you sell most everything, but every now and then you find something good. At least I get into that mind set, and it does not bother me as much anymore. The way quest rewards are tailored to your class, and you get to pick between an upgrade now or a better badge item later is a nice touch. Choice is good.
Kari
QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 11 2012, 08:02 AM) *
Started a consular on the republic side of exar kun. Went simple with the name "Wir" add me!


I also started something republic-side since that seems to be where the majority of AT is headed. Is there some sort of guild structure, or is everyone sort of just doing their own thing?
Kazicht
So far Linka, HC82 and I are on the republic side of Exar Kun. We've mainly been doing our own thing while waiting for more AT'ers to funnel in over time, so there's no official guild set up yet. I can always set one up tho... in fact I'll do that tonight. I'll keep a look out for you guys, or you can just look me up when your on.

I'm a Jedi Sentinel named Kazicht.
Wiryu
Sweet deal. I'll do some adding tomorrow. beigesmile.gif
HC82
Establishing a guild requires a party of 4 people who aren't in a guild. I say we establish some kind of "AT meet-up" at a set time so we can all be on at the same time, add each other to friends, boogie down in space, etc.
Wiryu
I can log in at anytime, but if we want to go for an organized time, I could log in around say...... 6pm est for guild stuff? If that's too short notice, lemme know and i'll jump in whenever needed.
Kari
QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 16 2012, 12:12 PM) *
I can log in at anytime, but if we want to go for an organized time, I could log in around say...... 6pm est for guild stuff? If that's too short notice, lemme know and i'll jump in whenever needed.


I'd be down for something like this. My schedule is pretty flexible!
Wiryu
I'll be on tomorrow around 6ish est. For now though? Screenshots! :D



My bearded Bounty Hunter. He's pretty awesome! Sadly you can only see his face via portrait.



He is level 50 now and lives only to PvP, until his next adventure! It's worth adding that the Bounty Hunter storyline was magnificent!



Now is the time for a new story! Wir the Jedi Consular Sage! :D



Coming along quite nicely.
Scan_Man
Really nice screenshots! guitarist.gif
Crushinator
Can you get a Jawa as your helper?
Wiryu
Bounty hunters can!
Kazicht
QUOTE(Wiryu @ Jan 17 2012, 04:22 PM) *
Bounty hunters can!


Yeah, you can be a cyborg bounty hunter with a Jawa. It's just like Star Wars!

My usual online time on during weekdays is 9pm - 1am EST. Weekends its pretty random, but I'm online all day most Saturdays.
tanshin

So there I was, pokin' dudes in the dick with my lightsaber. There was no reason for me to be doing this, but then again there wasn't a reason not to. My companion started to say something, but then I activated her shock collar a few times, and saberhilt-whipped her. This game is fun.

But anyway, has anyone else gotten to the part where you find out you're darth vader's parent? I was like



Also I say we start a petition to bioware, to have them add a Picard as a playable class
Kazicht
So the Apocalypse Tribe guild is officially up and running on Saber of Exar Kun!

Will post some sweet pics later!

Whoever is on the server you can look for me, HC (Dyne) or Wiryu (Wir) for an invite.
Wiryu
I can't say I'd be too surprised with all the bad press SW has been getting, but am I the only one still playing? :o
Crushinator
Probably. Get back on Diablo 3.
Knightsword
I'm still playing, but not much left to do on my server, except to level alts
EinsamWulf
I kinda lost interest in this game after awhile, I enjoyed it when I first played and for the first month or so but after awhile it just stopped interesting me. It's too much the MMO I've played before so I went back to Eve with Jaecryme, thats been a blast but I'll most likely take a break from that for a bit once The Secret World comes out.
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