lol... i tried to skill up throwing once in ffxi with pebbles. after missing 10 time si quit anyways heres some videos courtesy of parn.

http://synbios.net/site/

LOL! Parn.


They are thinking about adding abilities to the crafting jobs later on.

I think I mentioned at the start of the year that the jobs were not that impressive. It sucks even more that you are forced to play all of them to be viable. Not to mention with the Surplus system, and 48 hour guildleve cooldown, you pretty much forced into it.

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11964-surpl...-komoto-speaks/

Since people aren't fans of walls of text here's a breakdown.


You've only got a couple of hours to play before you get 0 exp. How is people having more time to play considered an "unfair advantage"? Especially in a fucking game that for all intents and purposes has 0 pvp content. Oh and it's on a fucking weekly timer? I'm thinking of canceling my preorder.

Yeah, i just read over that and it seems like a load of shit. How about they make a POSITIVE benefit for people who can't manage to play for long extended periods, rather than PUNISH people who actually want to... i dunno enjoy the game they are paying a monthly sub for?

This seems typical of ass-backwards japanese online gaming mentality, they just can't seem to grasp HOW players want to play these types of games.

Pulling a Scan Man here, but citing World of Warcraft, Blizzard was going to do something similar when WoW launched. A penalty in exp if you played for too long, with the intention of keeping players from getting "too sucked into" the game or what have you. There was a big backlash, players hated it AND they kept playing the game despite the exp penalty, so it clearly wasn't working. So they just reversed the system, rather than penalizing you for playing, you got a bonus exp (which is the rested exp in the game now) for time that you WEREN'T playing to help you keep up. Everyone is happy.

And this was 5 years ago, you'd think SE would have been able to observe this and learn from it. But instead they basically do the same thing but make it WORSE, wherein if you play for over 15 hours in a week, you get ZERO EXP. And that time does not reset till the beginning of the next week. What the HELL?

Well the main thing people on the beta forums are upset is with the Gamescom interview. It let us know they don't care too much about American feedback. Saying that 90 percent of the feedback was about the mouse, and then go to say they are not going to give us the mouse control we want. There was a lot more feedback than that, and suggestions on how to improve the game. And all we get is "LOL Japanese play games like this, we aint changing it." Same type of attitude when it comes to the specs.


I do not like it at all. Basically, if you do all the guildleves, 8 max, then there is nothing for you to do in the next 48 hours but level skills. Square wants you to join parties to repeat guildleves if you finish yours for the 48 hour cooldown. There are two problems with this. One, solo play is the optimal way to go in FFXIV because how skill points work (more on this below). Secondly, if you are done with your guildleves, going to go play in parties means you will be playing longer, thus hitting the Surplus cap sooner in the week. If you hit the Surplus cap, you can't play the game for the rest of the week.

I understand Square's reasoning for wanting to keep the game on an even playing field for those that have less time. But, it is a MMORPG. A MMORPG should be about choice. If someone wants to play 60 hours a week, they should be allowed to. They said also, they want other people to level the other skills. Surplus forces you to switch to another class. It sounds good on paper, but Square fails to realize that some people like to play one class. That is the whole point of the RPG part; you pick a role of your choosing and stick with it.

The skill system is flawed though. You gain skill points to level your job/class by using skills. Each skill you use on a mob nets you points. So, in order to get the maximum amount of points you want to be doing the least amount of damage possible. This is why group play is not optimal. You earn more points soloing things because you don't have anyone else competing to get their skills in. Square does not want to buff the amount of points you get in parties because that will be unfair to solo casual players; and we know they are marketing the game to casuals.

From what I gather from the Gamescom interview there is not going to be any end game right away. Makes sense because of balance. The skill system sounds like a nightmare to balance. It seems to me the easiest way to balance it is to assume everyone has all the weapons skills, basically all jobs leveled. With that said, it kind of makes sense on why they want people to level all the jobs. But, if getting all skills is the only viable thing to do because you would be a gimped noob otherwise , then why have multiple jobs in the first place? There really is no choice.


The other thing I don't like about Square compared to other MMO developers is their lack of communication. Testers have known about Surplus for a month, but no word as to how it worked, and why it was happening.


Crush you are right. Putting limits on people does not work. People that want to play hours and hours a week will find a way to play, if it means having multiple characters.

Interesting you mention World of Warcraft because in the current expansion, Wraith of the Lich King, they tried to limit people from playing again. So, it is an idea that was still prevalent. In Wraith they put limited attempts on the hardmodes of tier 9 raid (Trial of the Grand Crusader), and for the last four bosses in the final raid Icecrown Citadel(later nerfed to just be the hardmodes for those bosses).

Blizzard's reasoning was hardcore guilds who have more time to "beat their head against the wall" have an unfair advantage in beating content compared to equal, or better, guilds that have less time to play. A problem because the raiding scene is competitive and ranked in WoW. It is difficult to find out who is the best guild when you have guilds that will spend 20 hours a day learning new bosses. So, Blizzard put limit attempts in to promote quality boss pulls, instead of quantity.

However, the hardcore guilds response was to run multiple ALT characters through the raids in order to get more attempts on bosses. So, hardcore guilds with more time got an even bigger advantage because they were able to run a raid 3-6 times a week.

Blizzard finally learned that limiting play does not achieve the stated goal because people will find ways to circumvent it.

To summarize what Scan said for all you lazy rubes. Fuck Final Fantasy 14 and shitty JP Dev decisions. I totally agree with him too. If there's one thing we've learned from PSU it's to not support retarded JP Dev decision.

I'm making sure they hear my feedback, canceled my preorder for this game. Besides guild wars 2 totally looks like it's gonna be the shit. In fact I'm calling it now, Guild Wars 2 will be to MMO's what Call of Duty 4 was to FPS's

Folks on the beta forums figured out how Surplus works. The translation in that article is a bit rough. The way it works is Square figured what the average player would net in exp after 8 hours of play. Basically, you look at it as exp per hour. It is actually a theoretical 8 hours. After that "8 hour" period you hit the fatigue wall, which reduces your exp gradually until a later "7 hour" mark where gain 0 exp.

The system does not clock you. It bases its decision on a exp cap. Square thinks it should take the average player 8 hours to hit this cap. However, if your exp per hour rate is higher then you will hit the wall sooner. This is why some people in beta were hitting Surplus after playing for 2 hours. So, it actually varies depending on how efficient you are. Which hurts anyone that happens to follow a leveling guide, casual or not, as well as experienced players. So, it is only ignorant players that are protected by this system, not casuals?


Overall, I think it will hinder most casual players. Not sure what that actual number of hours per week that is on average. But I do know for WoW players at least, casual is about 20 hours a week on average. So by that standard, they will be restricted. Square's numbers are likely referring to Japanese gamers. Which is part of the disconnect here.

Pre-release trailer. OH GOD THIS SONG!

EDIT: From what Scan is describing it does sound like this will hurt casuals even worse than a hardcore player. If you're unable to play the game a ton each week, you'll want to maximize your leveling speed on your preferred class. So if you do grind as fast as possible in the short time you have and you DO reach that limit in two hours or so, thats even less incentive to keep playing.
http://www.destructoid.com/final-fantasy-x...er-182504.phtml

Dammit, you mean I can't waste all my time grinding away at levels like in FFXI? :(

...Wait, isn't that what people were bitching about in that game? The grind? Cake is cake.
Instead of thinking about this in such a way of what is being taken away from you, why not think about what this kind of system could do to effect the way you play the game? Maybe playing an MMO doesn't need to be all about "log in, find a party, kill shit, level up". Even when I played FFXI, I still didn't like to think of the game like that. Unfortunately, I think most people disagree with me there. They loved running through Diablo II, spacing out, mindlessly killing everything repetitively for the occasional rare drop. It was essentially being that rat in a cage, pressing a button over and over waiting for the random 1 out of 1000 times you press it to give you a dopamine rush in your brain. Some people are fine with that, more power to them, nothing wrong with that if you're having fun.

As a general philosophy of gaming, I think people these days are too absorbed with finding what it is that they can complain about in a game. After all, finding any flaw, discontinuity, and/or non-sequitur and making a huge deal out of it (with the right rhetoric and vocabulary) can make you appear pretty intelligent, right? I've never been one to miss out on a movie because Ebert says, in so many words, that spider-man looks fake. Maybe some of us need to re-examine why it is that we even play games? Do you feel like you HAVE to, or are you still having fun?

My favorite stuff to do in FFXI was: find creative non-boring ways to make gil, explore places I've never been while dodging scary enemies, find and do obscure and even common quests that weren't about farming 10 of something and returning, going places like the boat where random shit can happen like pirate attacks, progressing further into the story of the game, hanging out with my friends online and running around killing cool looking monsters that you don't normally kill for exp, switching to a new job and running around the noob area experimenting, running around town naked, messing with noobs, tricking people into fighting something and dying by pretending I was going to help them fight it, and just generally doing WHATEVER with my friends. Exping was never fun! Never! I remember kind of spacing out while tanking and having my hands just move on their own. I'm glad to see an attempt at mindlessness being removed from a game.

So yeah, I'm still going to give the game a 30-day shot as I'd previously planned since the game was announced. I'd like to have my friends there too for those 30 days (yes even you, scan_man), because it would be a lot more fun, but if you want to "punish" a corporation by backing out, that's cool too.

I have my own issues with the game as well, I'm not some blind final fantasy fanatic. I'm not even really arguing FOR the game itself, but for a refreshed outlook on gaming in general, starting with this game.

Buuuut this issue will probably get patched out at some point anyway. Especially since Breaker canceled his reservation. That'll learn 'em.

tl;dr - quit bitching about everything and play some games with me.

I liked grinding in FFXI. When I finally got level 75 I was lost at what to do in the game, I had come so far and worked so hard at leveling, then to what end? I didn't know what else to do after I had hit that pinnacle. I know there's "endgame" content and HNMs and shit, but that involved working with a lot of assholes that took the game WAY more seriously than I'd ever like to.

So after hitting 75 I played for about a month more, but had no desire to continue leveling or getting items. I was "done".

It's true, MMO's are a stairway to nowhere. Even if you had enjoyed the end game community, what then after you got all the items you wanted? Your point also reinforces my question of "why play?" With MMO's in particular, the game should be more about the "ride" than the "end result". If you're waiting for a big reward at the end, of course you'll be disappointed.

It's the same thing as life. You work, save money, go through a bunch of bullshit, just to die at the end. So just enjoy playing the game itself. Take what enjoyment and happiness you can get before the end comes.

The silly thing about this whole surplus thing is that I've been playing the beta pretty heavily and wouldn't have even known it existed until people started complaining about it. The first people I saw to have a problem with it were the people who got one single job to 25 in a day.

Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun with the game so I figured I'd pop in and see who all is gonna be playing. Let's playing XIV!

Also, for clarification purposes I'd consider my self somewhere between casual and hardcore. I managed to stay ahead of surplus (and i mean not even hitting it at all let alone the hard cap) solely by taking little breaks to craft every once in awhile. It really isn't as restrictive as people would have you believe.

All really good points.

When it comes MMOs I try to stick up for different people's playstyles. People's reasons for playing these games are never the same. So, when a choice by the developer restricts a particular player's playstyle I hardly ever find it a good thing. Some people like trying all the classes, others don't. Some don't like crafting, others do. Some people, all they want to do is make money by selling stuff; never touching any other part of the game. I see MMOs as giving you options. There should never be something in place to kind of force you one direction or another. It is about freedom within a virtual open world.The people bitching about Surplus, I think deep down feel like this system does not offer the freedom they expect from this type of game.

It is easy to say "go play something else." But if I was Square, I would not want to turn people away from the game. From the interviews they seem to think they know how players will play, and everything will go to their planned design. And they are wrong. Players are creative, inventive, and unpredictable.

They thought their Surplus cap was high enough for their "8 hours" of play. However, experienced players found a way to level more efficiently. Thus, hitting the cap a lot sooner. They admitted this on the front page of the beta forums yesterday. How a MMO is played will always be dictated by the players in end; it is the nature of a virtual world.

How they are played is mostly dictated by the hardcore players. Squares want to shift this balance, much the same way Blizzard has tried in WoW, and I commend them for it. However, the hardcores are the ones that write the efficient leveling guides, they are the ones that figure out which skills are the best for situation A or B, and they are the ones likely to stick with the game to the end. They know the game in and out. People with less time follow what the hardcores say to do because it is the best way, most optimal, or most efficient way of playing the game. Which is very attractive to someone who does not have much time to play comparatively. Besides, no ones wants to be called a "fucking noob." That is the social part of it.



Whether it affects the average player or not, it has hurt this game already. But, people will find a new thing to bitch about if Surplus is not an issue. Before the Surplus, people were bitching about the Market Wards, and there being no Auction House any time soon. It is simple things like this that are usually taken for granted in other MMOs that Square has intentionally left out, or not considered. In my opinion though, it is the system requirements that is going to hurt this game the most once open beta starts.

More on the issue here is Square is telling people how much time they should spend on the game that they are paying monthly for. The majority of people are not going to see it as "well the typical player will never run into Surplus, so there is no problem." They see the possibility of a restriction because a player's play time can vary day to day; like weekends. Generally, people want play at the pace they think they are getting their money's worth. Then you factor in the game being 12 bucks a month for one character. I'm sure for a lot folks out there, this is a lot to ask.


A lot of people are not factoring in that once the game goes live there will still be the 48 guildleve cooldown. When I say the Surplus system will hinder people, I am referring to it in combination with the 48 hour cooldown on quests.

Once you do your 8 guildleves, or whatever the max you can take at live is, you are done. Guildleves is the most efficient way to gain exp. So, after those are done, it depends on the player. Square wants you to group up with others that are running group guildleves, so you can repeat those ones you just did (besides soloing guildleves is more optimal, so how often will you find a group doing them?). Like I said in the other post, doing this for two days will have you reach your caps sooner. However, if you just log off for two days, then you might get some of your time to refresh. It might be better to just use your time on the solo guildleves every two days. You have the option to do other things. Though depending on what else you find appealing in the game, you may be penalized by this system. Basically, if you do not like the other options in the moment compared to your main interest (ie. want to play your main job, and you don't want to craft). I won't be surprised if people complain about there being "nothing to do but log out" because of reaching caps and cooldowns. I worry about player retention with such a system.


Anyway. . . Open beta is next week. I hope the other areas are better. After about 100 hours on this game, I am sick of Limsa Lominsa.

Scan-
Yeah, I actually agree with you there Scan. By their very nature, MMO's should give you as much freedom as possible. It's supposed to be an open, persistent world, right? I guess when it comes to this, I'm the hypocrite that cries for complete freedom and then gets pissed off when people "play the game wrong" (goldfarmers, people that are "too" hardcore, player killers, etc.).
I think you're also right about there always being something to complain about. I guess game companies just have to find some kind of delicate balance of issues that the least amount of people hate. Or, they could do what Square Enix is doing in the case of the surplus, and do whatever the hell you want despite player opinion, lol. It seems like the best way to design an MMO would be to just leave it extremely open and mold the world to the players as you go, due to the unpredictability factor that you mentioned.

If I had a bit more time on my hands to be MMO-ing I'd probably hate this surplus thing. But for the time being I have very little game time (at least until my contract is up at work D: ), and it probably won't affect me.

Can we get some kind of official role-call of who who is going to be playing for sure?

Officially NOT playing, unless someone gives me a gaming PC for my birthday.

I'll only play is crush is playing.

so officially NOT playing as well.

I just found a computer that fell off the back of a turnip truck. I'm playing. Preorder for the LE is fully paid off.

I will be playing.

Well, I'm not much a fan of this fatigue idea myself, but me playing was based on if friends were playing it in the first place. I started playing FF XI because a few Monster Hunter friends I had began playing it, so I did too. My enjoyment in FF XI was based on several things, but having good friends to kick it with often was the best of it. It's starting to look like there's going to be at least a handful of us, so I'm still on board to play. Um... this is a stupid dope mix?

I'm still in, and I'm calling it now - if you let this fatigue system stop your way of MMO, then the Japanese win.

Open beta I will be playing. After launch I will just observe, and see if I am interested in playing it by December. Launch is a no go for me because I will still be raiding hardcore on WoW to complete the expansion and my Shadowmourne (Boooo to Blizzard for making the last part of the quest long and grindy). Also, I am little more interested in picking DC Universe Online (has reasonable specs too). And of course Cataclysm comes out too.


But you know I am always interested in super-awesome-fun content that must be played immediately that may be found somewhere in the game. So if people say they found something like that in the later parts of the game I will pick it up.

Not a fan of leveling content overall. I like MMOs for endgame content. But if I had to choose, Guildleves is my favorite questing system so far (still need to experience Cataclysm's revamped streamlined questing and as well as The Old Republic's). Just sucks with the 48 hour cooldown.

I'm in, of course.

And I'm kind of thankful I'm going to college full time right now, or else that Surplus business would blow.

I'll be giving it a go, got my LE preordered as well, I'm still in a 3 day a week raiding guild in wow, so the fatigue system shouldn't hurt to much, yet it still is a piss poor idea by SE. Edit- This post is 1337 lol

Just got an email for the open beta. I'll hop on that see how it run on my PC. Still I'm gonna take a wait see approach with this game. Seems like now a days thats the best way to approach MMO's. Since it seems like there's bound to be bugs, glitches, exploits, oversights and plain old foul ups that devs miss in their rush to get games out the door. I'm sure they're gonna address the issues I have with the game, namely fatigue system but until now, I'll enjoy my console games like a cool guy.

Oh no! Open beta delayed!

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/final-fantas...postponed/2500/

Yeah not surprised it was delayed. Been the story of beta. They are really rushing this game. And what the fuck, it won't let me into the beta forums anymore.

http://entry.ffxiv.com/na/index.html

What are the current server names and are they the same ones we will get once the game drops on the 22nd?

I'm pumped to be able to play with you guys, again.

New server names.

Cornelia
Kashuan
Gysahl
Mysidia
Istory
Figaro
Wutai
Trabia
Lindblum
Besaid
Selbina
Rabanastre
Bodhum
Melmond
Palamecia

Nice. Once we pick one, I can start telling my other friends what server to hop on.

It better damn well be Figaro, or else

I would actually like that, too. Haha. Not gonna lie.

If ya have not gotten the beta files downloaded yet and don't wish to deal with SE's downloader, this site helped out a quite a bit

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/12719-open-...l-instructions/

Which starting city?

Dunno, after getting everything downloaded and installed, SE shut the servers down, so it looks like it won't be untill after work tomorrow for me to play.

What's peoples take on this game so far, considering people have delved into the beta? I've been reading that the game seems fairly incomplete and unpolished in certain areas. Meaning the game needs a longer delay.

It is by far the most stable and complete beta I've ever played. Almost all of the complaints stem from either not understanding how the game works or about things that will be implemented by launch or shortly after. The way I see it if you liked FFXI, you'll love FFXIV. No matter how much SE says they want to cater to a broader audience, it still fills the hardcore 'spergin niche that FFXI carved out.

I actually had to cut myself off from playing open beta because I wasted my entire long weekend solely experimenting with crafting and discovering recipes that aren't on any of the database sites. I just need to find out how to make one more thing to corner the acton market!

Thanks for the unbiased MMORPG warrior impressions, Maxx!

Okay so here's the plan.

I decided I'm gonna get the game, not becuase I liked 11, I actually hated 11. But because it's fun dicking around with you guys.

We're gonna start a Galka clan or Rygadyn whatever the hell they called. The guild is gonna be Called NWA. We all take the first names of Westcoast Rappers and use Chocaboo as our last names.


Crush called Tupac Chocaboo
Tanshin called Snoop Chocaboo
I'm going with Icecube Chocaboo

Remember, only Galkas allowed!

I made a taru (lalafell? gayyyy) named Frederick Durste and his retainer Bisquite. Showin' all you whoresons how to fuse rap and rock all while being three foot nothing. Just gotta find the recipe for Hempen Ballcap (Red) and I'll be set.

It would be nice if the downloader worked.

Go here http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/12719-open-...l-instructions/

I have it downloaded. But, I speak of that as a criticisms to Square. They let it go far too long without fixing it.


BTW Gridania is 10000000000000x better than Limsa Lominsa. Talk about unevenness. The intro for Gridania so much more entertaining too. And you get to see Moogles!

Yea I went to Limsa Lominsa, that place is worse then windy was in FFXI. Come full version I will be going elsewhere.

TEST

Success.

Oh ya one issue I hope SE fixes the crashing on alt tab when in full screen. otherwise its gonna suck having to rely on a 3rd party program again.

Ul'Dah is not so bad. The starting experience is just a step above Limsa Lominsa, which is disappointing. But oh man the graphics here are probably the best seen in the game.


I would say Ul'Dah's field area is probably my favorite so far for questing. Open space, great music, awesome graphical scenery.

Gridania's field is nice too, but it is more like a maze with narrow spaces. Lot's of rain, forest, and occasional river. Gridania has the most interesting mobs though imo. Limsa Lominsa is bad. It is just hills and rocks, and copy & pasted terrain (though the underground areas are freaking amazing) that is difficult to judge if you can navigate or not.


So, if I were to pick up this game. My choice would be Ul'Day. I'm going to probably to pick up this game around Christmas, or so.

Pugilist is awesome now with the upped combat speed. My class of choice. Second would be Conjurer, but gaining skills is still stupid with it, and casting spells is still unintuitive.